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Automotive News & Views Right To Repair - A Hot Issue or Big Problem?
133 messages, Last post on Oct 06, 2009 at 3:25 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: carinfohelp (Nov 27, 2007 12:49 pm) Do you add aftermarket parts to your car? Absolutely. Would you add aftermarket parts if there was a feature that you wanted but didn't have? Often I hold off from OEM features anyway because the aftermarket is so much cheaper and I can get specific items that are more in line with my personal taste. Why do you or others add aftermarket parts to their cars? Cost. Personality. Reliability. You name it. Would you add aftermarket remote access to your car? I have it for my car. I would do it again, yes. Would you add aftermarket push button ignition? No. My S2000 came with it and I like it as far as gimmicks go, but I wouldn't pay extra for it. |
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Replying to: rider62 (Nov 25, 2007 6:51 pm) I have seen hundreds of young kids come out of tech schools where they emphasized Computer diagnostics and they were lost on basic diagnosis. As long as there is still mechanical parts in the vehicles, the "teenage computer geek" (as you put it) will be lost. The computer person will be lost, because he won't have access to thousands of dollars of diagnostic information, updated information and specialized tools. The information system I have costs roughly $1800/year for each person. Add to that, the costs of scanners, DVOMs (some run in the neighborhood of $600) and what ever training that comes along. I'd like to see these computer kids rebuild a manual transmission or differential. I get many of these vehicles that these "computer kids" have hacked the computers, messed with the programming and added Nitrous Oxide, boosted turbos and that and destroyed their transmissions and differentials. Why? Because they were clueless to the basics. No bit of computer knowledge can replace experience and knowledge.
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Replying to: 0patience (Nov 27, 2007 11:10 pm) I think we're heading that way. I've fixed a lot of computers by swapping parts around and I have no transistor or electrical theory background. I'm hoping that all the electrical diagnosis scanners that you are paying big bucks for will trickle down and wind up being onboard the car one day. So the car will flash the idiot video screen and tell you what broke, how it tried to heal it, and what needs to be swapped out. It's not cost effective to resolder a resistor in a circuit board - are there still a lot of backyard starter/generator shops rebuilding alternators? I figure most of those guys have retired and that business is all bolt on now. The economics of simply swapping out a factory rebuilt tranny or differential may outweigh a shop rebuild too. For example, my buddy got a crate engine a couple of months ago and paid $1,000 more for a factory job with a 5 year warranty vs the local shop rebuilt one that offered a one year warranty.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 6:53 am) But it will get better and better, I'll grant you that.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 8:01 am) Maybe I'll get to buy a car with the hood welded shut before I croak.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 11:54 am) The problem with diagnostic machines is that they often lead to symptoms, not to causes. The human element has to build a diagnostic "tree" based on what the machine is telling him. Basically you are asking a machine to think. It can't do that. Well, it CAN play chess that's true but that's not quite the same thing. A chess board is a closed loop of sorts. A car is an almost endless universe of possible hassles 
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 3:17 pm) And maybe you and 0Patience and 3% of all the other "techs" out there could diagnose why the plug eroded (probably just old age in my case lol). Everyone else will charge me a $60 "diagnostic" fee, change the plugs, tell me "they all do that" and send me on my merry way. |
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Up to about a year ago, we owned a '98 Passat, and I did almost all the work on it at home. This included diagnosing and fixing body computer and central locking issues. This was because of Bentley publishers, and a company called Ross-Tech. Bentley sells the factory repair manual on CD, and Ross-Tech sells software that'll let your laptop plug into the OBD-II port and emulate VW's diagnostic tool. In addition to listing all the OBD-II standard codes, it understands and displays VW specific codes, which you can then diagnose with the repair manual. It'll also let you monitor and log engine, transmission and body computer operation in real time. Plus, you can clear codes, and set any "options" (auto-lock and the like). Total cost for software, cable and shop manual was about $260. Not cheap, but the first time I used it I was ahead of the game, money wise. Also good for peace of mind, 'cause the one time the check engine light came on and we were 700 miles from home, I was able to determine it was nothing more serious than a sticky idle control solenoid. What's also interesting to me is how many other 3rd parties have been able to reverse engineer OEM software. If you have a forced induction VW/Audi, BMW, Evo or Subaru, there's some very good stuff out there. One of my cow-orkers was thinking of ditching his Legacy turbo 'cause of a nasty part-throttle stumble that Subaru knows about, but can't fix. Instead, he loaded Vishnu's stage I software, reduced the stumble to a tolerable level, and picked up 35 HP in the bargain. |
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 3:31 pm) 
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 4:04 pm) 
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