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Right To Repair - A Hot Issue

120 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2008 at 4:07 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Electrical


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#111 of 120
Re: the electronic generation of cars [Mr_Shiftright] by steve_ HOST
Nov 28, 2007 (4:31 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 4:17 pm)

Yes but what CAUSED #3 plug to erode and the others not is the question of the day!
 
And maybe you and 0Patience and 3% of all the other "techs" out there could diagnose why the plug eroded (probably just old age in my case lol). Everyone else will charge me a $60 "diagnostic" fee, change the plugs, tell me "they all do that" and send me on my merry way.
#112 of 120
It's not totally hopeless by ajvdh
Nov 28, 2007 (4:35 pm)
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Up to about a year ago, we owned a '98 Passat, and I did almost all the work on it at home. This included diagnosing and fixing body computer and central locking issues. This was because of Bentley publishers, and a company called Ross-Tech. Bentley sells the factory repair manual on CD, and Ross-Tech sells software that'll let your laptop plug into the OBD-II port and emulate VW's diagnostic tool. In addition to listing all the OBD-II standard codes, it understands and displays VW specific codes, which you can then diagnose with the repair manual. It'll also let you monitor and log engine, transmission and body computer operation in real time. Plus, you can clear codes, and set any "options" (auto-lock and the like). Total cost for software, cable and shop manual was about $260. Not cheap, but the first time I used it I was ahead of the game, money wise. Also good for peace of mind, 'cause the one time the check engine light came on and we were 700 miles from home, I was able to determine it was nothing more serious than a sticky idle control solenoid.
 
What's also interesting to me is how many other 3rd parties have been able to reverse engineer OEM software. If you have a forced induction VW/Audi, BMW, Evo or Subaru, there's some very good stuff out there. One of my cow-orkers was thinking of ditching his Legacy turbo 'cause of a nasty part-throttle stumble that Subaru knows about, but can't fix. Instead, he loaded Vishnu's stage I software, reduced the stumble to a tolerable level, and picked up 35 HP in the bargain.
#113 of 120
Re: the electronic generation of cars [steve_] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Nov 28, 2007 (5:04 pm)
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 4:31 pm)

Ah, that's partly your fault for patronizing garages like that
#114 of 120
Re: the electronic generation of cars [Mr_Shiftright] by steve_ HOST
Nov 28, 2007 (5:08 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 28, 2007 5:04 pm)

I found a good guy just today - when I told him my '97 needed a 60k service, he about swallowed his cigarette.
#115 of 120
Re: the electronic generation of cars [steve_] by 0patience
Nov 28, 2007 (5:49 pm)
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 28, 2007 4:31 pm)

I do see the point you are making. There is a lot of advancement being made in the computers for the cars of tomorrow.
 
But let me give you an example of what can go wrong with the "techs" of today who don't learn basics.
Today, I had a machine that had an alternator problem.
For some reason, the alternator wasn't charging and some of the lights weren't working. The computer was telling us that the alternator wasn't charging.
 
Ok, we knew that.
Upon testing, the wire that signals the alternator to start (Some call it the signal wire, exciter wire or charge wire) didn't have voltage.
 
Here is where it gets tricky. The computer actually controls the voltage to the signal wire. So, where does the tech go?
Check the computer? It says the alternator isn't charging.
Check the alternator? Why? Alternator can't charge with out a signal.
 
Now, here's a bit to throw you, if you turned the lights on, the alternator started charging.
 
So, back to basics. Visual check.
Followed the alternator signal wire back and found that it had rubbed thru and was shorting on one of the wires that ran the headlights. (To clarify, the exciter wire had rubbed thru and partially into the headlight wiring) Headlights off, the connection was broken, headlights on, it supplied power to the alternator signal wire.
 
Repaired the wire and headlights and alternator worked fine.
 
The point of all this typing is that all the computer skills in the world wouldn't have solved this one. What solved it was basic electrical knowledge.
 
For those who I bored to death, sorry about that.
#116 of 120
Re: the electronic generation of cars [0patience] by steve_ HOST
Nov 28, 2007 (6:10 pm)
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Replying to: 0patience (Nov 28, 2007 5:49 pm)

Well, I'm not so sure that a sensor couldn't tell you that a particular wire is losing voltage or current under load because of a short. So a good computer would say that wire is bad and replace it. You use voltmeters now to test loads and such I assume, so the only issue I see there is figuring out how to track that load in real time without spending a fortune on the sensors.
 
Plus I'm sure you've run into situations where the wire got pierced or something and is shorted but there's no external visible evidence of a problem.
 
I'm just tossing out terms I don't fully understand, but I think you get my drift.
#117 of 120
slowly winding its way to the legislators.... by steve_ HOST
Apr 29, 2008 (11:25 pm)
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"The AASP is a national consumer group based in Boston that is pushing the Right to Repair Act, now in the U.S. Congress and also the [Mass.] state Legislature.
 
The bill, if passed, will require car companies to provide independent repair shops access to all the diagnostic codes and repair information that it supplies to its dealers."
 
Local mechanics fight for car repair information (South Coast Today)
#118 of 120
Re: slowly winding its way to the legislators.... [steve_] by estreka
Apr 30, 2008 (8:48 am)
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Replying to: steve_ (Apr 29, 2008 11:25 pm)

I found this article in the WSJ about the expense and ease of repairs. Apparently the IIHS and some group called the Research Coucil for Automotive Repair (RCAR) have been working together to persuade automakers to involve ergonomic design into their automobiles in relation to maintenance and repairs. Interesting article.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB120671829721371953.html
 
It should be noted that RCAR is a collection of insurance agencies. I would imagine their agenda involves getting repair costs below the magical $1000 mark, where many folks set their deductables.
#119 of 120
Re: slowly winding its way to the legislators.... [estreka] by steve_ HOST
Apr 30, 2008 (9:00 am)
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Replying to: estreka (Apr 30, 2008 8:48 am)

I've seen a few of those headlight replacement horror stories, so any movement to fix idiotic stuff like that would be welcome.
#120 of 120
Re: the electronic generation of cars [0patience] by krony
May 09, 2008 (4:07 pm)
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Replying to: 0patience (Nov 28, 2007 5:49 pm)

great story, as they say..."common sense isn't so common anymore"

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