Last post on Mar 31, 2007 at 3:26 AM
You are in the Cadillac STS/STS-V
What is this discussion about?
Cadillac STS, Sedan
#10 of 22 Re: 2008 STS Changes? [pri]
Feb 11, 2007 (8:20 am)
I guess you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying a DTS per se but the old FWD DTS need to be put out to pasture and like the Europeans and Japanese the bigger car in the premium brands is usaully more expensive.
When I was talking about middle class I guess I forgot to mention the word "upper". Does it really matter as people will site different money figures to break down the class systems in this country ? I guess I look at upper middle class as someone making over $60K as being in the top 20%
Middle Class to most to the best of my knowledge is $45-59K a yr.
I did yes say that the DTS or a equivalent should target its self to upper middle class folks. A person making over $60K a yr. Of course circumstances and cost of living play a roll into affordability. I know that the Cadillac Seville STS was always obtainable by General Motors-UAW employees thus many were owned by employees. However this current generation went up about $10K from 04' to 05' and IMHO it's not a good enough car to demand that kind of premium and the market has proven me right. I also seen for the first time no UAW employees buy top trim V8 models like AWD and most can only dream about affording the STS-V, unless they have a spouse with a killer job or inherited money.
GM, like Mercedes and BMW needs a "Big Body" car like a DTS only larger to tackle the more affluent. I also think they need to go one step further and build the Cadillac ULS with a V-12 or V16 engine to go after the rich. Maybe a V-16 coupe like the Cadillac Sixteen would also be credible enough ? I do believe a V-12 mid engine high performance car would further add prestige to the brand but first they need to get the DTS or like car to RWD before they concentrate on those fish.
#11 of 22 Re: 2008 STS Changes? [rockylee]
Feb 11, 2007 (11:33 am)
OK, but we need to be talking about the non-UAW buyers' market. (Note: upper middle class is now in the six figure category.)
Two points to remember:
1. UAW plant line workers get paid way more than the average blue collar worker who is not in the automobile industry for the same amount/type of work so they have a distorted view of the non-UAW plant work force pay scale. This is not a criticism, just a fact. If you can get paid that much then go for it I say and I don't blame you for it. Many professionals (like some CPA's, general practice doctors, military officers and many lawyers) do not get paid as much.
2. UAW plant workers get a significant discount on their company's products when they buy them. Again, I have no problem with that either. It is a common practice in most industries. But how many of your workers could afford the same car, with the same options, without the discount?
In summary then:
1. From what I have been reading, I believe and hope that the next generation STS will be going upscale, with a better quality interior and smoother paint, and not be worried so much about maintaining a low price point. There is a definite attraction to owning a car that your neighbor cannot afford.
2. I am hoping that the 2008 STS will be up to my standards next year when I plan on buying a new car. I would really like to buy another Cadillac!
#12 of 22 Re: 2008 STS Changes? [pri]
Feb 12, 2007 (6:18 am)
Well those non-union Toyota workers made $3.00 more than those UAW workers this year.
#13 of 22 Re: 2008 STS Changes? [pri]
Feb 12, 2007 (6:19 am)
Well I hope GM, builds you a car like you want.
#14 of 22 Re: 2008 STS Changes? [rockylee]
Feb 12, 2007 (7:30 am)
Upper middle class are people with incomes over $100,000 per year. Middle class are people whose incomes range from about $30,000 to $90,000. Lower middle class would be somewhere from $25,000 to $40,000. A lot depends on where you live, I live in a State whose average income is 50th of all the states.
#15 of 22 STS affordable?
Feb 12, 2007 (7:31 am)
I think the middle class can afford the V6 STS program cars.
#16 of 22 Re: 2008 STS Changes? [sls002]
Feb 12, 2007 (12:13 pm)
Not a bad lay-out. I agree it all depends on where you live.
Feb 20, 2007 (1:29 pm)
If the next STS, whatever and whenever they decide to release it, will have the same leap from the curent model as the 2008 CTS has over its own, then Cadillac has the chance to wipe the floor with its competition.
Here is what I think that means:
A more elaborate, softer and cooler looking interrior with metallic and wood materials, leather in the doors, and cool ambient lighting, possibly driver selectible.
More rear seat room. The current version has a problem with that, specifically, I sat in an STS, and found it cumbersome to get out from the back seat. Now, if this was a pontiac G6 or a Honda Accord, I would not find any problem with it, but on a 50 - 60K car, it should pick you up and sit you down itself
A much better engine. There is nothing wrong with the curent Northstar, but the engine is a big deal. The japanese are really on the ball with this, and so are the germans. Cadillac and Ford both have great new V6's, with GM's bieng the best in the CTS at 300hp. This should be the base engine, with a V8 redone to 400hp and possibly 4.8 or more than 5.0 liters, with all the advancements of the new DIrect Injection V6.
They should keep all of the current features, including the HUD system. GM needs to martket this feature, It really sets the STS appart, and meybe GM could expand on this idea by adding come more features to the HUD and filing some more patents.
Any new features would be welcome, as long as they are easy to use and sound cool (for some, its what luxury is all about).
And don't loose the focus on quality. This is the biggest sellar next to fuel economy, performance, etc. It's very important to test the car over and over again untill it tops the charts.
What do you think?
#18 of 22 Re: 2008 [exalteddragon1]
Feb 24, 2007 (2:05 am)
It needs to 2008' Chinese interior to be a world beater.
#19 of 22 Re: 2008 [exalteddragon1]
Mar 26, 2007 (7:17 pm)
Dragon, I think you have a good post. I bought GM cars for a long time, but have gone over to Audi then BMW because they made cars I WANTED TO DRIVE. Caddy has absolutely blown it with the STS, because many of the features that would make people want to drive it come packaged at ridiculous prices which include things people do NOT want. I recall a 1967 Pontiac Lemans that I bought new that had an order sheet with no packages, just the options. You could pick and choose between HD suspension, bigger wheels/tires, dual exhausts, various radios, etc. Yes, the world in more complicated these days, but if Caddy would take all their Nurburgring goodies and let people buy them without a lot of stuff they don't want/need, they would sell more cars.