Last post on Jan 10, 2013 at 8:20 AM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid Maintenance & Repair
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#77 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [skylennard]
Nov 20, 2009 (8:51 am)
The dealer said that I needed a new IMA battery but that the cat conv. was probably ok. Honda agreed to pay 75% of the battery even though it was out of warranty. One month later the CEL came back on and they tell me I have to replace the Cat Conv. as well. That is one O2 sensor, one IMA battery, and one Cat conv. all around 100-120,000 miles. I have called Honda corporate again to see if they will help with the Converter as well. We'll see what happens.
#78 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [03civichybrd]
Nov 20, 2009 (1:23 pm)
Hi, I'd suggest you consider the following questions before going along with what the dealer says you need to do:
1) What will happen if I don't replace the Cat Conv? Will my car stop running?
2) Why do I need to replace the battery? Will my car stop working?
I understand why a lot of people post about the troubles that everyone is facing with these parts, but it's not a dire issue.
My 2003 Civic Hybrid has 145,000 miles on it over 7.5 years of ownership. In that period, I've gotten my transmission replaced once for free while it was under warranty. My check engine light has come on and stayed on, my battery discharges much faster than it used to, and I've been told my Catalytic Converters need to be replaced.
I've been driving my car with a weaker battery, a check engine light, and (supposedly) broken catalytic converters for about 2-3 years now (approximately 40-60k miles). I've had no problems, no new issues.
This is not a safety issue (e.g. airbag, suspension, brakes) and because it's a flaw in the design, even if you spend money to replace these parts, you're going to have the same issue in 40,000 miles at the latest. So why spend the money? Does the benefits outweigh the cost?
I don't think we need to spend money to continually try to fix an unfixable design issue. I think the best we can do is notify consumer reports and BBB and honda corporation that they messed up in the design so that other people who consider buying a used civic hybrid knows.
Also, if you haven't received it yet, there is a lawsuit against Honda regarding Civic Hybrids that will take place on 1/11/10. If the judge favors the plaintiff, then all Civic Hybrid owners will be allowed between $250-1000 rebate if you purchase a new 2009-2010 Honda (excluding fit, civic hybrid, and insight).
As for me, I've decided that I can live with the problems and plan on keeping this car another 5 years. =)
#79 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [rileyyh]
Jan 07, 2010 (7:02 pm)
Sounds like a good plan, except for the fact that I'm due for an emissions inspection by the end of the month...
Yes, same problem here. Check engine light came on at 120,000 miles. Went the the dealer and they told me catalytic converter needed to be replaced, and quoted me $2400.
I did get the ECM update done in 2007. I called back and spoke to the service manager today, telling them about this obviously widespread problem, but his answer was that since the check engine light hadn't come on when I got the ECM update, my catalytic converter must have been fine at that point. Had the light come on they would have extended my warranty on the cc to 180000. I told him exactly what I thought of that policy and said I would start following other avenues.
I've seen people have had luck contacting Honda corporate. Does anyone have any further advice.?
#80 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [dkellyb717]
Jan 08, 2010 (11:18 am)
Failing that - see back in this thread - details about OEM cat' that is way cheaper ($500?) than Honda one.
#81 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [hchybrid]
Feb 08, 2010 (3:14 pm)
I've got the same problems:
Cat Converter went out on my '03 HCH in October of 2006 at 77,000 miles. I took it to Streater-Smith Honda in Conroe, TX and they replaced the CC and only charged me labor due to the 80,000 mile warranty.
The Check Engine Light came on again in January of 2010 at 114,000 miles (after I noticed a drop of about 8mpg efficiency). Took it to Santa Barbara Honda, and they tell me it the CC is bad.
I called Honda Care and did my best to bitch up a storm. The representative filed my complaints and said Honda would not be acting on my request for parts because the warranty is up. So everyone else out there, please keep complaining to Honda. Maybe if the racket continues, we'll get our third Catalytic Converters covered.
That is only three years and 40,000 miles on a Honda parts and installed Cat. Something is definitely wrong with the settings on our cars! If any lawyers are out there looking to pick up a class action lawsuit, get on it!
Now, I've agreed to the service because I'm pretty sure you can't run on a broken CC. It causes overheating in the exhaust system, which I think leads to a backing up of exhaust and damage to the rest of the engine. I've learned that the CC isn't essential, if you can get a non-Honda mechanic to put in a third party CC, do it. If you can get someone to skip the CC process and have a straight pipe of exhaust, that works too (unless you have emissions tests to pass).
I live in Cali, so I can't get most Cat Converters as they have to be California Legal by state standards. Most cheap ones aren't.
#82 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [hchybrid]
Feb 14, 2010 (7:56 am)
It's also been brought to my attention that this could be a rear converter O2 sensor issue. It's probably cheaper to replace this as a first step. I'm having problems figuring out exactly which O2 sensor to order. I see an "upstream", a "pre catalytic converter" and a "post converter" sensor listed on a few sites. I'm looking for the one that is on the rear converter. Which one am I looking for?
#83 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [dkellyb717]
Feb 14, 2010 (12:16 pm)
Maybe. The O2 sensors are equally part of the problem. The rear 2 cost $500 to replace - so beware!
Alternatively there's this carbon de-coking treatment now available - I just had this done for $150. Figuring if this works - worth a try first.
Symptoms are a significant drop in mile per gallon figures - mine went from 45mpg to 39mpg. Takes couple of hours - 2 weeks ago now.
Snag is - no idea if this worked - because the snow storms here on East Coast keeping car in garage!
#84 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [hchybrid]
Feb 15, 2010 (8:38 am)
Let me know how this turns out. The dealer wants to charge me $2400 to replace the cc, which I assume would include the O2 sensors. I figure no matter what I try it will cost less than what the dealer is asking.
#85 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [dkellyb717]
Feb 15, 2010 (12:46 pm)
OK - the cleaning I had done is TerraClean - looks like its an OEM service - not just for Honda - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VCuki_-vXQ
Probably worth having this done - and then have them reset the engine codes - run for a week or two and see.
If you still need to replacement Cat - then for non-CA folks - best way to go is OEM - see other threads here from people who had OEM cat installed - one guy even did it himself from kit.
#86 of 116 Re: very relevant reading [skylennard]
Mar 29, 2010 (1:05 am)
As a followup to my previous post, I have given up trying to get **anything** out of Honda; they straight refused to offer me any kind of discount, coverage, etc - I talked with the regional and corporate numbers, I never got anywhere useful.
I'm waiting on my DAVICO converter to be delivered in the mail this week; I'm counting on that to clear out the P0240 code so I can get my emissions passed and renew my registration, that's currently about 7 months past due because of this whole battle!
Good luck to any and all who get anywhere with the "man" on this one; Honda isn't going to be getting any business from me in the future. There's too many competitors on the market, and Honda doesn't seem to want to back up their products and keep customers happy.
I'll let the board know what happens with my DAVICO converter. I paid Honda $60 to "diagnose" the P0240 and was told that I needed to replace the manifold/cat conv (there's 2 but the 2nd isn't monitored by o2 sensors, etc) and the "primary" o2 sensor, which is the one that bolts into the manifold/cat conv and is called the "upstream" or "pre-cat conv" o2 sensor. I got my replacement locally at Autozone, cost me $150 this week. That got rid of the P2000 code and the P0138 code; the P0240 remains, and I'm hoping the replacement manifold/cat conv fixes that code.
My gamble and fight with Honda has forced me to do this repair at my expense; I finally got a ticket for expired registration, and if I can get it updated before my court date the first week of April, they'll drop the ticket (lucky me!)