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SUVs Saturn Outlook Compare the CX-9, Veracruz, Pilot, Acadia, Outlook, Enclave and Freestyle
7147 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2009 at 5:13 PM
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Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 14, 2009 9:09 am)
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Replying to: loach (Apr 14, 2009 9:50 am) I test drove one but hated the electric PS. This coming from a Toyota owner. 
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We're looking to buy something larger than our Saturn for a family of four. Plus, we like the versatility of compact SUV and don't want a minivan. We live in Michigan, so winter driving is a consideration. Southern Michigan though, so winters not too bad, but there is some snow, and occasionally a lot. In many ways we prefer the Forester. Better visibility and manual available. But my wife thinks the Toyota will have better reliability and lower maintenance cost and longer life. True? Forester rides betters. Rav4 v6 is awesome and smoother than 4 cylinder, but that inflates price and lowers gas mileage. A little more legroom in Rav4. Don't like the side-swinging tale gate, but like the full spare. What do you think? Pros/Cons? Is 4wd/Awd worth it? Occasionally it would be nice, but most of the time not necessary. Are Toyotas cheaper to own and maintain?
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Replying to: pilgrimjs (May 17, 2009 6:12 pm) We have an 09 Forester X Limited (non-turbo) and an 07 Sienna V6 with that same 2GR engine and U151E transmission. Subaru wins the AWD battle by a long shot. I looked in to the Sienna AWD and reviews for the AWD system were only so-so and it mandated run-flat tires I didn't want, so I passed. We previously had owned a 98 Forester and the AWD system on that was excellent (overall reliability was also). CR rates them very close, RAV4 by a nose comparing automatics, but their 5 speed manual Forester averaged an amazing (for them) 25mpg. That's nearly as good as the Escape hybrid's 26mpg, and much better than either with automatic. I don't like the swing-out door on the RAV4 - you need a lot of room to open it plus it opens the wrong way (blocking the curb). That forced us to look at a Sienna and a Highlander. Maintenance costs should be about the same. We actually got a Chase Subaru card and you can earn Subaru Bucks to pay for service, so to be honest I'm actually more concerned about the Sienna in that regard. The V6 is a gem, the best selling point when we got our van. Love it. Fast, yet efficient. It made Ward's 10 best engines list and for good reason. Surprisingly, though, the 4EAT on the Subaru is actually a lot more responsive than the 5EAT on our Sienna, which hesistates a bit to drop a gear. So the Forester responds sooner but the Sienna is quicker once you get going. I'd say get a Forester and then sign up for a Chase Subaru credit card to hedge your bets and offset any fears of higher service costs, but IMHO that's a myth. If you do get the RAV4, get the V6, which is nearly as efficient at the 4 banger yet more powerful. It should be a hoot to drive. CR actually rated the Forester XT (turbo) higher than the RAV4 V6, FWIW, but no manual is available on that model. Good luck with either one. |
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Replying to: pilgrimjs (May 17, 2009 6:12 pm) The Toyota has handled everything three Canadian winters could throw at it and I'm pleased with its AWD performance (and I came from a Subaru before it, so I've tried both). The penalty for AWD on the RAV4 is so low (1-2 mpg) that I wouldn't even consider going with FWD in a northern climate. I don't know about in the US, but in Canada the Forester would cost more to maintain simply because its service schedule requires more frequent servicing than the RAV4. However, this isn't in itself a good reason to choose one vehicle over another, in my opinion. I'd rather pay more to maintain the vehicle I actually prefer to drive than save on service but regret the purchase. Both Toyota and Subaru are known for a quality, long-lasting product. I'd recommend going with the one that suits you and your wife better without being overly concerned about a small difference in cost of ownership, if one even exists in your area.
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Replying to: cbmorton (May 18, 2009 6:38 pm) I just wish they'd pick a nice, round number like Toyota does. It is MUCH easier to remember 5/10/15 vs. 3750, 7500, then 11250. We put a sticker on the top of the inside windshield as a reminder on the Subie. cbmorton: does your RAV4 have the service reminder light? That's pretty nifty. You never forget. It's something that every automaker should add. One thing, though: the 2GR V6 uses a cartridge type oil filter that I find to be a pain in the neck to change. I'm not even convinced it's better for the environment because you have to use rags to clean the case every time you change the oil, and you discard 2 rubber seals and a plastic bit used to drain oil from the filter itself. Also, auto parts stores around me don't stock that filter, so I had to order them in bulk from a Toyota dealer online. The Forester has a spin off filter you can get anywhere that takes 1/4 of the time to swap out. A non-issue if you're not a DIY-type like me.
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Replying to: ateixeira (May 19, 2009 8:09 am) The service reminder light is one of those Toyota features that's market-specific. Canadian models don't have it. Even if ours did, I'd probably never see it anyway since we don't rack up enough miles and go by time instead with a service every six months! You're right about the cartridge-type filter - that's a common DIY complaint about the 2GR-FE.
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Replying to: cbmorton (May 19, 2009 11:13 am) I looked at the list of services for my Sienna, and it actually seemed longer than for our Forester. For instance, in the AWD version, it calls for the tech to check the torque of the rear axle shaft, which seems like overkill, and Subaru doesn't require that. Subaru's AWD is sealed and maintenance-free. The only thing aside from normal maintenance you have to do is the rear diff fluid, and that's true for any AWD vehicle (exception being electrically driven hybrids). Is your RAV4 FWD? That might explain it. One advantage of the 2GR V6 from Toyota: chain driven cams, so no belts to replace. Though to be fair Subaru's interval for those is 105,000 miles.
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Replying to: ateixeira (May 19, 2009 11:26 am) What I meant by more involved is that the Subaru maintenance schedule calls for certain other items, not just regular oil changes, to be performed more often. For example, the 48000-km service on a Subaru is about 3.5 hours recommended time; on a RAV4 about half that, in part because the Toyota isn't getting new plugs, coolant or a brake service (caliper lubrication). So during that first 48k km the Subaru is in the shop eight times (vs six for the Toyota) with more work being done during the Subaru's visits as well. Again, though, if I preferred the Forester the increased maintenance requirements wouldn't deter me from buying one. It's an excellent vehicle.
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