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SUVs Crossover SUV Comparison
7126 messages, Last post on Nov 18, 2009 at 1:27 PM
You are in the SUVs Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
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Replying to: coldcranker (Sep 02, 2008 12:24 pm) Toyota simply puts a priority on isolation and comfort. Period. The job of the suspension is to absorb bumps and keep the vehicle on its intended path, quietly. Isolation is a priority over feedback, so the steering is novacaine-numb. I like my Sienna but I'll admit, the steering has less feedback than my Nintendo Wii Remote. Seriously. None. Some critics say it's too light, that's actuall not true - it is well weighted. It's just not connected, the feel. Like you operate a joystick or a video game, one without the force feedback feature. This is good in some ways - you don't feel jolts, speed bumps, irregularities in the road. This can reduce fatigue. Your passengers nap peacefully in quiet comfort. Ok, what do you trade-off for that quiet isolation? Feel and feedback. You can't tell when the tires are about to break traction, they just do, then the intrusive traction control nanny raises the red flag and ends the party. There will be no exceeding this limit, and we're not going to tell you where it is, nor when you are getting close.  That's the best way I can put it. Funny thing is, ultimately they do handle well, albeit with more lean. Grip is fine. It's just you have no feedback to know what the tires are doing. True for the brakes as well, even for the throttle-by-wire for that matter. That's just how Toyotas are. Isolated. Basically think BMW-style feedback, where you can see the limits coming, even feel the texture of the road, then think the exact opposite. That's Toyota. Note that in the C&D comparo the Sienna actually matched the lateral grip of the Odyssey, but read the text of the article and you'd never know. Sorry if my explanation is hard to understand. A Toyota can be driven fast, perhaps even just as fast as car B, but it will not really reward you with driving fun the way a (insert your favorite car here) will. So, why did I get one? Because the Sienna is a phenomenal vehicle for the other 7 passengers. Plus you don't drive your family vehicle the way you'd drive a BMW.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Aug 29, 2008 4:53 pm) The lease price I got was exactly the same as the 6cyl rav. Actually one quote I got was substantially lower but the reviews for this dealership are very negative so I have a feeling they won't honor that quote: 36 month lease/ 15k miles $0 down / $337 which includes tax. The other quote I got seems more realistic: $0 down / $339+ tax Does that price seem fair? I'm in the Denver area. thanks!
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Replying to: tigerlily3 (Sep 02, 2008 7:48 pm) |
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Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 02, 2008 1:09 pm) Sorry if my explanation is hard to understand. A Toyota can be driven fast, perhaps even just as fast as car B, but it will not really reward you with driving fun the way a (insert your favorite car here) will. So, why did I get one? Because the Sienna is a phenomenal vehicle for the other 7 passengers. Plus you don't drive your family vehicle the way you'd drive a BMW. For those who only have one vehicle, the Odyssey is a good compromise. It doesn't ride as quietly as the Toyota or as smoothly either, but instead, its a lot like a big Accord; a benefit to many (especially me, an Accord driver  ). How many miles do you have on the 'yota now, a-t? |
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tigerlily3: residuals for the Subaru Forester are fantastic. Something like 59% for 3 years 45k miles, 61% for 3 years 36k miles, depending on the model. Ask car_man, but they're best in class. Most competitors are around 52% or less. I would stick with premium fuel, though. They recommend it for a reason. See if you can get Costco gas, or get a Shell gas card to offset the difference. The XT gets taller gearing, so at highway speeds the RPMs are kept low, lower in fact than the base engine. I believe Toyota does the same with the V6 (taller than the 2.4l 4 banger). That's why you don't see a big mileage penalty in either case. Our Sienna is close to 14k miles now but it's in the shop because a Chipmunk chewed up our wiring harness.  Our Forester only has 1400 miles or so. We like them both, each definitely has its own strengths. We plan to keep both cars for the very long term. I'm quite pleased with our fleet, actually, probably the most satisfied I've ever been with my cars. Our 3rd car is a 1993 Miata and it just keeps on going. I'm thinking about trading it, but I ask myself why? It's perfectly fine. It is the slowest of our 3 cars, but it's just for my commutes. Miata is a great city car. Sienna makes a great highway/trip car. Forester is a good compromise if you do both. 
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America's economy is bad now. Food price is going high, factories are closing and poeple are losing their jobs. What I want to say is, try to buy American made if you can. For the ones were born in this country and the ones who moved in, do it if you think you've been having good life here. I am not begging money for American auto manufactures, I am just a normal immigrant from mainland China and I believe more or less, we've affected by the economy situation, especially people around us are losing their jobs. So move on, give American a chance, and leave ourselves chances.
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Replying to: manufan1 (Sep 03, 2008 10:18 am) Subaru produces Tribeca, Legacy and Outback vehicles built by Americans in Indiana. The country of origin for a manufacturer now has less and less importance to the economy of that country and its workers than ever before. If people are buying more Camrys over Malibus, that's bad for workers in Detroit, but good for the workers in Indiana where Toyota produces them for the NA market. If you are feeling left out, buy the stock and bring the profit back home too. |
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Replying to: volkov (Sep 03, 2008 12:09 pm) You are just counting who assembles the vehicles in factories, not where they were engineered. I am a mechanical engineer, and I can tell you, the best jobs are the ones where the vehicle is engineered, not necessarily just the factory jobs. Both are important, but don't you think a large number of high-paying $90,000 per year jobs in vehicle engineering are important? I do. Do you know how much income tax is collected on those income levels compared to lower-paying factory jobs? My family pays 4 times the income tax to the Feds/state than a factory worker's family, due to non-proportional progressive tax rates. ( As a side note, I once saw a county refuse construction of a new microchip factory in Oregon because the jobs were all low-paying factory jobs and they could not collect enough state/county income tax to pay for the huge influx of low-paying worker's public services at those low income levels!) That being said, I understand John Q. Public just looking at the best performing, best value vehicle for them personally, without noticing who makes it. It is market competition. Just give American-designed vehicles a fair shake. Those vehicles are most Ford, GM-brands, Chrysler/Dodge. Japanese makes do some engineering here, but not the toughest engineering work in the U.S., mostly just styling exercises and corporate espionage ( I personally know of one Honda Research Labs engineer in Colorado whose job it is to steal any available tech from the U.S. aerospace and auto industry for possible applications in Japanese Hondas, but that is another novel.) By the way, for myself and many other mechanical engineers I know, we are proud of vehicles such as the Ford Freestyle/500/Taurus and Ford F150s, the two vehicles I own, as thoroughly engineered and tough competition. Very well built vehicles, especially for the money (no expensive BMW comparisons pa-leeze!). |
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Replying to: coldcranker (Sep 03, 2008 1:59 pm) |
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Replying to: volkov (Sep 03, 2008 12:09 pm) My concern is that money goes to which headquarter office and who controls that amount of profit. For example same American workers, but different bosses, to me it is a big difference; Getting paid by an American boss is different from a Japanese, there are also many other aspects would be affected by that....When amount of money belongs to someone and in his pocket, it doesn't matter where he is traveling to.
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