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SUVs Crossover SUV Comparison
7127 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 8:31 PM
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Apr 12, 2008 7:25 am) 07 Pilot owner here. Not in the market. Each vehicle will cater to its own set of the market. Pilot market has been: 1. Reliability; 2. Practicality; 3. 50/50 Mix of Ride / Handling; 4. Better Mileage than Comparative haulers (Tahoe etc) [note: I'm not saying TOWers - for towing, truck-based is clear winner]. Note: styling is not there. Box styling is consistent with #2 practicality. How will the 09 stack up? Extremely hard to say here, but: #2 Practicality: Best features of current Pilot: generous front row space, excellent storage options in front row; wide second row; some usability of third row (more than many competitors), particularly given overall size. Problems with Pilot practicality: Very Small Storage with all 3 rows up; Access to third row could be easier; a little more legroom in 3rd row would be appreciated; No direct Ipod link (possible with rear Nav); Cannot get both DVD & Nav Predictions for 09: Storage with 3rd row up increased a good bit (though probably less than GM trip/quadruplettes): based on thick D Pillar Better Access to 3rd row, and a bit more legroom door in 3rd row - based on what looks to be wider 2nd row door (makes it easier to get foot there to 3rd row); probably will not have 2nd row pass-through, so GM Trip/Quadruplets would have it beat on access / usability of 3rd row. Other practicality issue: should now have Ipod connection; availability of both DVD & Nav together #3: Ride/Handling Pilot is very much an in-between market here. Closest match is Veracruz, IMO. Nothing like the handling of CX9, but nowhere near as punishing a ride either. Not as cushy as Highlander, but better handling. Predictions for 09: one rumor suggests slightly better handling (implementing some of the MDX improvements), while keeping similar ride. If so, I'd be pleased. #4: Better Mileage than Similar Haulers This is a weak link in current Pilot. While better than large GM SUVs, it's beaten by GM Trip/Quadruplets, iiuc. Prediction for 09: not much of an improvement, based on what we're seeing with Accord V6. In all, I think it will address most of its most serious shortcomings. However, the one that is probably most important in the current market, fuel economy, is probably the one least addressed. Will a diesel make a difference? One is supposedly on the way in a two years, but the question then is, will US refineries change their mix to produce more diesel (so that temporary shortages of diesel do not cause such rapid price spikes for diesel)? Honda does not seem to be going hybrid in this class. Would a 4 work? It's a heavy vehicle. Not sure how many would buy (I would, but I don't use it for towing, nor do I currently live in mountains). For now, I'd say it's an improvement over the current Pilot (and able to defend its existing market niche). However, a big part of that niche is being swayed more by mileage than by Honda-Reliability, and I think the GM Trip/Quad pose a big challenge to it (which now match its practicality in many aspects, and better it in others). And it's not going to get those who used to go Pilot for handling/performance (over old Highlander / Tahoe etc) who cannot go to the MDX, and instead go to CX9. But, I do see it sufficiently defending itself v-a-v the Veracruz. Not sure how the Flex fits in, but I doubt the 2 will be cross-shopped much. We'll see! |
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Replying to: dbt (Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm) I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about what is important to the Pilot buyer. You would know, since you own one. This is why I still think it will sell 150-200K until, regardless of how it looks. I think passenger room and cargo room is a big issue, considering the Lambdas and the CX-9 have more passenger room, easier to access the 3rd row, and cargo room, making them more practical then the Pilot. While the Pilot gives the appearance of a more useful and larger CUV because of the box shape, it actually falls short. This is unless the new Pilot is indeed larger. As you said, and which I have stated earlier, the fuel economy is going to be an issue here. I highly doubt that the Pilot will be able to show a significant fuel savings, if any, over GM, Mazda or Hyundai. If the competition is indeed on par in terms of fuel economy, then the ride and drive of the Pilot better sway potential buyers from them if the reliability history of the Pilot is not enough. We all know the new Pilot is not going to win any beauty contests, so, that factor is the decision process is not a positive. |
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Replying to: dbt (Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm) So boxy is good for practical uses, but with all the other choices in the market today, seems to me they could have made a little more effort. But to your point, it will still sell well enough.
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Replying to: dbt (Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm) |
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Replying to: nxs138 (Apr 14, 2008 2:03 pm)
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Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 15, 2008 8:35 am) |
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After reading the new Pilot walk around by Edmunds, I have to admit, the Pilot seems to have lived up to most of the expectations. I knew it would grow in size, especially after reading about the increase in behind- third row-cargo space to an impressive 20 cubes. But I was actually thinking it would grow more than just 2 inches in length- more like 3-4. I guess Honda didn't want to mess with successful ingredients- and the size always was right. I was also impressed that legroom was up an inch in the 2nd row, and 2 in the third, pretty good for adding 2 inches in length. However, overall cargo space is still an average 87 cubes. I guess something had to give somewhere. I was also hoping for captains chairs. I will even admit the styling has grown on me a little- but that's probably just from looking at all those marketing photos. I wouldn't say it's best in class, but it's a good imporvement on an already good package. And I'd take it over the Highlander.
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Replying to: albook (Apr 15, 2008 5:36 pm) It does seem that Honda concentrated more on the utilitarian part of the CUV, rather then the drive. It does not seem like a bad idea. The GM's went for more interior room, more power. Mazda went for the overall drive and interior passenger space, and now Honda went for overall utility. |
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This is something that Honda is known for, however, they pull up short here with the new Pilot. See how it stacks up against the competition. Pilot. 16/22 250hp/253tq CX-9. 15/21 273hp/270tq GM. 16/22 275hp/251tq Hyundai 15/22 260hp/257tq Considering how much power the Pilot has, IMO, that is what makes the fuel economy not that impressive compared to the competition.
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Replying to: aviboy97 (Apr 16, 2008 9:38 am)
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