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Crossover SUV Comparison

7127 messages,  Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 8:31 PM

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What is this discussion about? GMC Acadia, Mitsubishi Outlander, Subaru Forester, Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Taurus X, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rogue, Honda Accord Crosstour, Dodge Journey, Car Buying, Car Comparisons, SUV

#6405 of 7127 CR: still full of-it by albook Apr 12, 2008 (11:25 am)
Fresh results form CR tests say Honda is number one automaker sold in the US. Another shocker: Toyota is number two. This was totally unexpected. Oh, and they just keep coming. US auto makers ar at the bottom of the list. GM's newer vehicles like the lambdas and Malibu did well, though.
#6406 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [albook] by thegraduate Apr 12, 2008 (9:13 pm)
Replying to: albook (Apr 12, 2008 11:21 am) Well, the Malibu took a step up on quality, the Accord took a step down.   Back to CUVs!
#6407 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [albook] by aviboy97 Apr 14, 2008 (7:45 am)
Replying to: albook (Apr 12, 2008 11:15 am) Come on, anyone could see that was a joke. Maybe I should have put one of those goofy emotorcons on there. Then you would have seen it.   Yes, gosh darn it, you should have posted a silly face!! Shame on me for not picking up your sarcasm
#6408 of 7127 Flex forecast - 100k sales by ateixeira Apr 14, 2008 (9:01 am)
So Ford is telling Automotive News that they predict the Flex can sell 100k units per year.   What say ye?   I think it's possible, but depends a lot on price. The market has tanked so I do not think they will meet that target in the first year, but could eventually build up to that level of sales.
#6409 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [aviboy97] by dbt Apr 14, 2008 (12:16 pm)
Replying to: aviboy97 (Apr 12, 2008 7:25 am) Bottom line, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered to see if Honda really made an improvement with their new Pilot.   07 Pilot owner here. Not in the market. Each vehicle will cater to its own set of the market. Pilot market has been: 1. Reliability; 2. Practicality; 3. 50/50 Mix of Ride / Handling; 4. Better Mileage than Comparative haulers (Tahoe etc) [note: I'm not saying TOWers - for towing, truck-based is clear winner].   Note: styling is not there. Box styling is consistent with #2 practicality.   How will the 09 stack up? Extremely hard to say here, but:   #2 Practicality: Best features of current Pilot: generous front row space, excellent storage options in front row; wide second row; some usability of third row (more than many competitors), particularly given overall size. Problems with Pilot practicality: Very Small Storage with all 3 rows up; Access to third row could be easier; a little more legroom in 3rd row would be appreciated; No direct Ipod link (possible with rear Nav); Cannot get both DVD & Nav Predictions for 09: Storage with 3rd row up increased a good bit (though probably less than GM trip/quadruplettes): based on thick D Pillar Better Access to 3rd row, and a bit more legroom door in 3rd row - based on what looks to be wider 2nd row door (makes it easier to get foot there to 3rd row); probably will not have 2nd row pass-through, so GM Trip/Quadruplets would have it beat on access / usability of 3rd row. Other practicality issue: should now have Ipod connection; availability of both DVD & Nav together   #3: Ride/Handling Pilot is very much an in-between market here. Closest match is Veracruz, IMO. Nothing like the handling of CX9, but nowhere near as punishing a ride either. Not as cushy as Highlander, but better handling. Predictions for 09: one rumor suggests slightly better handling (implementing some of the MDX improvements), while keeping similar ride. If so, I'd be pleased.   #4: Better Mileage than Similar Haulers This is a weak link in current Pilot. While better than large GM SUVs, it's beaten by GM Trip/Quadruplets, iiuc. Prediction for 09: not much of an improvement, based on what we're seeing with Accord V6.   In all, I think it will address most of its most serious shortcomings. However, the one that is probably most important in the current market, fuel economy, is probably the one least addressed.   Will a diesel make a difference? One is supposedly on the way in a two years, but the question then is, will US refineries change their mix to produce more diesel (so that temporary shortages of diesel do not cause such rapid price spikes for diesel)? Honda does not seem to be going hybrid in this class. Would a 4 work? It's a heavy vehicle. Not sure how many would buy (I would, but I don't use it for towing, nor do I currently live in mountains).   For now, I'd say it's an improvement over the current Pilot (and able to defend its existing market niche). However, a big part of that niche is being swayed more by mileage than by Honda-Reliability, and I think the GM Trip/Quad pose a big challenge to it (which now match its practicality in many aspects, and better it in others). And it's not going to get those who used to go Pilot for handling/performance (over old Highlander / Tahoe etc) who cannot go to the MDX, and instead go to CX9. But, I do see it sufficiently defending itself v-a-v the Veracruz. Not sure how the Flex fits in, but I doubt the 2 will be cross-shopped much. We'll see! Replies to this message: aviboy97 (Apr 14, 2008 1:50 pm) nxs138 (Apr 14, 2008 2:03 pm) ateixeira (Apr 15, 2008 8:35 am) nxs138 (Apr 15, 2008 3:28 pm) albook (Apr 14, 2008 6:06 pm) tifighter (Apr 16, 2008 1:51 pm) nxs138 (Apr 16, 2008 6:27 pm) bobw3 (Apr 17, 2008 6:49 am) and 55 more... aviboy97 (Apr 17, 2008 9:18 am)
#6410 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [dbt] by aviboy97 Apr 14, 2008 (1:50 pm)
Replying to: dbt (Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm) Very insightful post.   I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about what is important to the Pilot buyer. You would know, since you own one. This is why I still think it will sell 150-200K until, regardless of how it looks.   I think passenger room and cargo room is a big issue, considering the Lambdas and the CX-9 have more passenger room, easier to access the 3rd row, and cargo room, making them more practical then the Pilot. While the Pilot gives the appearance of a more useful and larger CUV because of the box shape, it actually falls short. This is unless the new Pilot is indeed larger.   As you said, and which I have stated earlier, the fuel economy is going to be an issue here. I highly doubt that the Pilot will be able to show a significant fuel savings, if any, over GM, Mazda or Hyundai. If the competition is indeed on par in terms of fuel economy, then the ride and drive of the Pilot better sway potential buyers from them if the reliability history of the Pilot is not enough. We all know the new Pilot is not going to win any beauty contests, so, that factor is the decision process is not a positive.
#6411 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [dbt] by nxs138 Apr 14, 2008 (2:03 pm)
Replying to: dbt (Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm) Well the 2008 Highlander addressed some of its earlier shortcomings, yet sales are a bit off from this point last year. You could blame the economy, or you could blame the fact that people were expecting something a little sleeker in the redesign. The GM Lambdas have managed to do this right, by a careful combination of classic SUV looks and sleekness in the right areas.   So boxy is good for practical uses, but with all the other choices in the market today, seems to me they could have made a little more effort. But to your point, it will still sell well enough. Replies to this message: ateixeira (Apr 15, 2008 8:35 am) nxs138 (Apr 15, 2008 3:28 pm)
#6412 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [dbt] by albook Apr 14, 2008 (6:06 pm)
Replying to: dbt (Apr 14, 2008 12:16 pm) You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The new Pilot will definitely be an imporvement over it's predecessor, I'd be pretty certain in all areas except gas mileage. It will be successful, but I don't think anyone could really say that it wouldn't be more successful and have more market share with a slightly sleeker, overall better looking exterior.
#6413 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [nxs138] by ateixeira Apr 15, 2008 (8:35 am)
Replying to: nxs138 (Apr 14, 2008 2:03 pm) Hopefully that puts pressure on Toyota to make simple improvements - like a split 3rd row for starters. Replies to this message: nxs138 (Apr 15, 2008 3:28 pm)
#6414 of 7127 Re: 2009 Pilot [ateixeira] by nxs138 Apr 15, 2008 (3:28 pm)
Replying to: ateixeira (Apr 15, 2008 8:35 am) Yeah, I agree. I liked the new Highlander, even though it didn't have a lot of room behind the 3rd row: I figured that I could always pull down half of the 3rd row to make more room...but nooooo! No split 3rd row. That really turned us off, so here we are with a CX-9. Their loss, I guess.

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