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Crossover SUV Comparison

7326 messages,  Last post on May 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM

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What is this discussion about? GMC Acadia, Hyundai Santa Fe, Ford Taurus X, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rogue, Honda Accord Crosstour, Dodge Journey, Car Buying, Car Comparisons, SUV

Messages Page 260 of 734

#2584 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [volkov] by nastacio

Jul 31, 2007 (10:45 am)

Replying to: volkov (Jul 31, 2007 10:25 am)
There was no information about the Taurus X but I think they only differ in the front fascia and powertrain, maybe not a good approximation. Ford fared very well with the Edge, which may be a good sign.
 
I didn't consider "Green efficiency" a measure of quality, which is why I considered the results the same.
 
Car and driver has an Enclave on their long-term fleet. Maybe they will have a good verdict within the next two months:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13329/rants-and-raves-2008-buick-enclave.ht- ml?al=116

#2585 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [nastacio] by volkov

Jul 31, 2007 (11:14 am)

Replying to: nastacio (Jul 31, 2007 10:45 am)
You are only looking at the short summary. Go here for full scores. Doesn't include Green numbers. FS total 23, Outlook 21, Acadia 24, Sante Fe 26 .
http://www.jdpower.com/autos/segment-quality-ratings/Midsize-Multi-Activity-Vehi- cle
 
A useful page for all our discussions. AND yes, before anyone else starts another debate, not the final word on anything.

#2586 of 7326 Re: Enclave passenger volume [nastacio] by stevedebi

Jul 31, 2007 (11:35 am)

Replying to: nastacio (Jul 30, 2007 9:50 pm)
"Did the trunk in the Taurus X get smaller than in the Freestyle? I though it was more like 19+ and not 15.8, but I got the number from Ford's spec-sheet."
 
Actually the FS is around 22 cu Ft behind the third row, if one can call that a "trunk" in a station wagon. I suspect that Ford is no longer counting the "well" into which the 3rd seat folds. I don't know why this would be true, unless they put in a "floor" back there for some private storage or something.

#2587 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [volkov] by ateixeira

Jul 31, 2007 (11:39 am)

Replying to: volkov (Jul 31, 2007 11:14 am)
OK, hold up, wait a sec, what's up with this?
 
Explorer gets 3 stars, Mountaineer gets 5? Across the board the scores are different in almost every category by 1 or even 2 stars, even powertrain - mechanical?!
 
They're CLONES! The mechanicals are identical.
 
That alone proves the data useless.
 
Don't mean to shoot the messenger, so thanks for the link, Volkov.

#2588 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [ateixeira] by nastacio

Jul 31, 2007 (12:06 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 31, 2007 11:39 am)
The data is filled out by the owners, but aren't there some differences though between your two examples?
 
For instance, an Enclave owner may rate its powertrain as better than an Outlook owner would, because "it is quieter". In reality the sound insulation would be responsible for the impression of a smoother engine.

#2589 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [nastacio] by ateixeira

Jul 31, 2007 (12:12 pm)

Replying to: nastacio (Jul 31, 2007 12:06 pm)
That might explain very minor differences in NVH. I can also accept that some materials are better.
 
But a radical difference like that? It's as if the vehicles have nothing in common whatsoever.
 
If it were at least the Lincoln Aviator, which has a different engine entirely, and much different materials, I might accept it. But a Mercury? It's a Ford with a Mercury badge pasted over it. They're really not any different.

#2590 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [ateixeira] by volkov

Jul 31, 2007 (1:04 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 31, 2007 12:12 pm)
Your points ar why I bothered to type in the Acadia results as well as the Outlook. Plus you need to get into the mind of the owners. As I alluded to, the same score for an Outlook versus the R series M-B w.r.t. fit and finish issues may not reflect the same quality. If I stretched my budget to get the Mercedes I would be much less forgiving than if I bought the GM along with its $$ savings.

#2591 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [ateixeira] by baggs32

Jul 31, 2007 (1:22 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 31, 2007 11:39 am)
OK, hold up, wait a sec, what's up with this?
  
Explorer gets 3 stars, Mountaineer gets 5? Across the board the scores are different in almost every category by 1 or even 2 stars, even powertrain - mechanical?!
  
They're CLONES! The mechanicals are identical.

 
Actually the Explorer has a better 4WD system than the 'neer. You can choose Auto, 4X4 High, and 4X4 Low in the Expy while the Mountaineer is stuck with just Auto.
 
The most concerning thing about the ratings is that the Mountaineer is rated higher by them in the "Powertrain quality-design" category. How can it be better if it is a stripped down version of the Explorer's system?

#2592 of 7326 Re: Family Needs Answers [nastacio] by freealfas

Jul 31, 2007 (2:51 pm)

Replying to: nastacio (Jul 31, 2007 9:54 am)
"All that said, I am still looking into an Enclave because the only other vehicle with similarly sized interior dimensions, the Taurus X, did not perform any better and doesn't look as good (IMHO)."
 
I don't remember the original poster mentioning the FS/T-reX once in their post. You just can't seem to not take a cheap shot at the Ford despite not being correct with the fact the T-reX performed better than the enclave as has been posted in the jd powers numbers(facts, just the facts).
 
Thanks for posting up the interior volume numbers, they made my point for me in our discussion about overall interior volume and your desire to set up mid and full size class system as the 2 were close overall so your point seemed moot. I'm still not sure how GM got 32cuft more behind the front row with only an 8cuft overall gain on the FS though. Something still smells funny to me about how gm is coming to their published numbers by row. And again, that's not to say they are not bigger, I'm just still a little unsure of where that huge difference actually is.
 
As for performing better let's see...
 
T-reX FWD 3959 / 263 = 15.0 lbs/hp
torque 249 = 15.8 lbs/lbs tq.
  
enclave fwd 4780 / 275 = 17.3 lbs/hp
torque 251 = 19.0 lbs/lbs tq.
 
I think it's going to perform a whole lot better, combine that with 5 star ratings and it being a top pick in the rear crash results that have been posted and I think you have a fine alternative to the enclave for a bunch less money(why hasn't gm submitted the triplets for testing, hmmmm.). Yes you give up a little space(8 cuft) but your buy in is going to be less as will your curb weight(8 cuft advantage + 800lbs more to schlep = each one of those extra cubic foot of space weighs 100lbs, that's a lot extra to be hauling around).
 
As for your design analysis, that's your opinion... the OP can come to their own conclusions given the facts.

#2593 of 7326 Honda Pilot by bobw3

Jul 31, 2007 (3:36 pm)

If you don't need to buy right now, I'd wait until the new Pilot came out. There's a lot more then HP and interior passenger size when it comes to buying a vehicle. The Accord isn't the biggest 4dr sedan, nor is the Civic, but they're just about the best small and mid-sized sedans out there. And that comes from just about every car magazine there is for the past decade, as well as different reliability and quality measures. Or the Odyssey.
 
Anyway, just saying it's a lot more than the name Honda that sells their vehicles. It's the quality of the interior, layout of the controls, utilization of space, long-term reliability, steering/handling, and the list goes on.
 
American manufacturers keep trying to sell their vehicles based on the "bigger is better" premise and "more HP is better". It hasn't worked for them in the past, and if they keep trying to do it with their CUVs, they're going to find themselves on the bottom of the pile yet again.

Messages Page 260 of 734

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