Last post on Apr 20, 2007 at 8:45 AM
You are in the Acura TSX
What is this discussion about?
Acura TSX, BMW 3 Series, Saab 9-3, Sedan
#15 of 34 New vs Certified
Apr 11, 2007 (7:04 pm)
New: Buy BMW or TSX
Certified: Buy BMW or Saab
Used: probably TSX
Safety: Exclude TSX (close the doors and trunks of these cars will tell how week the steel metal a TSX is). Saab is better.
Handling: Of course a Bimmer
Highway driving: BMW or Saab, they are so stable.
A new Bimmer with the "standard options" probably cost you a lot. A used one probably has most options.
Yes, Saab has lower resale value. If you look at MSRP, the resale value seems to be crazy. However there is usually several thousands of factory to dealer incentive (usually it is $3000-$5000 I think the record was $7000 for a 9-5)
You probably don't need a certification for a TSX. You really need a warranty for an European car.
#16 of 34 Are you serious?
Apr 11, 2007 (8:50 pm)
ytsejam - The TSX and 3-series both require the same level/frequency of maintenance. Just because BMW says 15K oil changes and "lifetime" transmission fluid, doesn't make it a good idea from a longevity point of view. If you want your BMW to last 10 years, please service it more frequently than the manufacturer recommends.
Also, could you define "AWD handling?" AWD may help your BMW accelerate up an ice covered hill, but it does nothing to improve your ability to turn or stop on snow/ice.
r34 - If the TSX's steel is so "week," then how come it performed better than the E46 BMW in the NHTSA crash test?
TSX scored 5 5 5 4 and the BMW scored 4 5 3 5. The BMW's "3" in front seat side impact was accomanied by a "safety concern" regarding, "intrusion of the left front door during the side impact test...causing a high pelvic acceleration."
#17 of 34 Re: Are you serious? [fedlawman]
Apr 12, 2007 (2:55 pm)
-ytsejam is correct. The shorter oil change intervals in the past were recommended because of the different oil and engine specs. Unless your driving your car very hard in the extreme climates, changing oil every 3500 mi is just a waste of money.
If I am correct, the BMW maintenance computer-assisted control not only provides you with a mileage countdown to a service but also keeps a log of the oil temperatures and adjusts the service interval accordingly.
-about the AWD system. It not only helps to climb up a slippery hills, but also minimizes chances to flip your car when it hits an ice patch/water puddle on a highway. The conventional traction control is no help here because it is usually designed to work at the speeds below 50 mph. Yet, the AWD system along with a stability control helps to minimize understeer/oversteer when driving on a dry, curvy road.
#18 of 34 RE:fedlawman
Apr 12, 2007 (7:01 pm)
Sorry for the typos. Sometimes you think of a word/sentence but you type something else.
For those safety ratings, I found a lot of vehicles got 5 stars rating (even a Kia). It will be interesting to see 2 different vehicles hit together. The TSX comments were based on my experience with my friend's car. I think a TL is much more solid.
I guess European cars probably require more attention. Most people agree the TSX will be more reliable but I don't think I will pay a premium for a non-turbo 4 Japanese car.
I don't think the TSX is comparable to the other 2 cars. Maybe a TL is a better choice.
#19 of 34 Re: Are you serious? [matrsoskin]
Apr 12, 2007 (10:48 pm)
Re: Oil - Do you run your brake pads down to the last millimeter and run your tires to 1/32nd tread depth?
BMW recommends 15,000 miles oil changes - this from the company that says you NEVER have to change your transmission or differential oil? Does the BMW maintenance computer monitor the ppm of wear metals that have accumulated in the oil. Does it tell you to top-off the oil when you when you get 1/2 quart low? Does it detect the presence/amounts of insolubles? Does it tell you when the filter needs to be replaced? What about changes in viscosity?
I agree that the day of the 3000 mile oil change is long gone, but I disagree that 15,000 mile intervals are sufficient - even full synthetic. Seriously, is it worth saving $30/year?
Re: AWD - The Acura and Saab both have Stability (yaw) Control systems. It works at any speed, and constantly monitors vehicle speed, throttle position, individual wheel speeds, steering angle, lateral g-forces, and yaw rate to correct oversteer and understeer conditions.
#20 of 34 Agree!
Apr 13, 2007 (4:11 am)
I think the 15,000 oil change interval is what BMW covers in the free mainenance. It's better to do the oil change more often. I guess at least 5000 mile for regular/semi-synthetic and 10,000 miles off full-synthetic. I think the BMW free mainenance covers more items and longer than the Saab's.
If you are buying new, it will be fun to use the European Delivery program to pick up the car in Europe (Saab gives you more travel money and I think Volvo is the best).
If you are leasing the car, I think Saab has the best deal.
TSX - reliable, nice package (value) but under-power and not so luxury.
BMW - good handling, more feedback from the car but there are too many around and more expensive (I think you need to pay for leather seats even for a M3!)
Saab - unique, better look (at least to me), very comfortable leather seats (9-5 probably has the best), turbo is fun but interior is not so good an certain things are outdated.
#21 of 34 Re: Are you serious? [fedlawman]
Apr 13, 2007 (6:36 am)
Fed, I believe Shipo did some TBN analysis on his 530 and also his DGC in terms oil life. I do not recall what they were but I believe he sticks to around 5K-8K mile oil changes w/synthetic for the BMW due to the better engine tolerances. I know he uses Mobil 1 on his vehicles, which I have done also since the mid 90's.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Here is a note from one independent test on M1:
Based on the results we've got here, we'd recommend 8,000 miles between oil changes on an engine that uses no oil at all, perhaps 10,000 miles on an engine that uses some oil, and 15,000 miles or beyond with a filter change every 5,000 miles. This, of course, isn't any kind of guarantee, and you must evaluate for yourself what your engine requires. One thing we're pretty sure about though: 3,000-mile intervals is a huge waste of resources.
#22 of 34 Re: Agree! [r34]
Apr 13, 2007 (6:46 am)
Yes, European delivery would be the way to go. If I ever buy a new BMW, that's what I'd do.
Why do you say the TSX is underpowered? On the dragstrip, numerous magazine tests show the 2004 TSX is just as quick (if not quicker) than the other two.
#24 of 34 Re: Agree! [fedlawman]
Apr 13, 2007 (11:15 am)
Based on the title of this discussion topic, I'm assuming we are comparing used cars, not new ones. Hence, I assume this is the E46 BMW platform.
I don't have the literature in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the '05 325Ci brochure calls out 0-60mph time of 7.1 sec with the 5-sp manual. I have an old Car & Driver review that measured 7.0 sec for a 325i. I thought I saw a TSX road test that was slightly above 8 seconds?
But if we are comparing new cars, such as the new 328i, then the difference will be greater. I think the 328i is somewhere around 6.4 seconds.
The one thing I remember from an extensive TSX test drive: I needed to rev the engine at high rpm's in order to get reasonably good acceleration from it. That's not exactly a real-world driving style for me. At lower rpm's, it didn't seem any quicker than my Volvo S40 2.4i (non-turbo) model.