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#1 of 151 Current and Future-performance oriented domestic & foreign sedans by rockylee

Nov 29, 2006 (4:22 pm)

I want this car forum to include the Lincoln MKZ, Cadillac CTS, and CTS-V, STS, STS-V, Lincoln MKS, BMW 335i, M3, M5 G35, VW Passat, Audi A4, S4, Holden-Pontiac Grand Prix/G8, etc etc etc. since the MKZ and CTS-V weren't allowed in the
"entry-level performance luxury sedan" forum
 
Rocky

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#2 of 151 2007 Lincoln MKZ AWD Road Test by rockylee

Nov 29, 2006 (5:02 pm)

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#3 of 151 BMW 335i & ETC....... by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (7:35 am)

I've never driven a BMW 335i, but based on the road tests it has superb performance. It gets pretty expensive fast when you start clicking the options buttons but I assume most buyers will be in the $44-$46K range with one. I personally think a no i-drive, no navigation, no active steering unit, with a manual transmission, sports package, heated seats, is the best value for the driving enthusiast.
 
The Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lincoln MKZ, and both current and 08' CTS offer the 335i its stiff est competition. The Infiniti G35 with its 306 RWD horsepower offers the driver 80-90% of the performance for thousands less.
 
The Lincoln MKZ, is another FWD vehical alternative to the 335i. You get a beautiful interior with lots of gadgets including a segment leading 14-speaker THX II certified DVD-A surround sound system. You also get the only ventilated seats in the segment if you don't count the Saab 9-5. The MKZ fully loaded with AWD is priced at $37K which is still $2K cheaper than a stripped bargain basement BMW 335i.
 
The Acura TL Type-S is another vehical option for consumers to consider if they have to drive in the snow. It's FWD drivetrain along with a set of snow shoes will help. The TL Type-S also comes standard with a manual transmission.
 
The Cadillac CTS, is still a hot selling alternative. It can be equipped with a 3.6 "High Feature" V-6 and be teamed to a 6-speed manual transmission. it also can get into the $40's when you start clicking the option box. The CTS-V is a 6.0 LS-2 V-8 with 400 hp. It comes with only one option sport shocks otherwise it's fully loaded. If you cross shop a fully loaded 335i to a CTS-V the "V" will only be $1K more MSRP. But everybody knows you will be able to purchase the "V" thousands cheaper than a fully loaded 335i where BMW will be asking at or near MSRP. The 2008' Cadillac CTS is rumored to have anywhere from 280-320hp. The new and improved 3.6 V-6 will finally have Delphi's direct injection system. The 2008-2009' Cadillac CTS-V has been rumored to have either the 7.0 LS-7 V-8 with 500-600 hp. The other engine is a supercharged or turbocharged 4.6 Northstar pushing north of 500hp. When both of these cars come on line they are expected to exceed BMW, because GM engineers were told to exceed the BMW 3 series and if you've seen video footage such as I have you will see BMW's following the Caddy test mule around the track.
 
So feel free to add any comments, disagreements, agreements, and I promise to not make it personal.
 
Rocky

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#4 of 151 Is The CTS-V KING ? by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (7:58 am)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjWvZshIfBY
 
Rocky

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#5 of 151 kdshapiro by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (9:16 am)

BTW I notice you have been predicting the demise of the 3 series for about 1+ years now. Hasn't happened yet, much to your chagrin, I'm sure.
 
It wasn't necessary the demise of the BMW 3 series kdshapiro, but rather something that will exceed what all BMW's do very well. They are the benchmark. Over a year ago I was reading Cadillac, was testing the new CTS mule to the BMW 330i. I'm sure they had a wrench throwin' into their plans when BMW, revealed the new and improved Twin-Turbocharged 335i. If my memory serves me correct the new CTS, was suppose to come out this fall but obviously the new 335i, changed those plans and thus caused a year delay.
 
Rocky

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#6 of 151 louiswei by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (9:36 am)

My biggest concern for y'all MKZ band wagoners is that have y'all actually went out and try the other competitors like the 3er, IS, G and TL? If you have and still think that the MKZ is an worthy competitor in this class then we certainly welcome that inputs. However, the argument that the MKZ is the most nimble Lincoln currently available does not sit well with most of us.
 
Well thats part of the problem. Just because some of y'all don't think the MKZ belongs in the entry-level luxury performance segment y'all went out of your way to band it from the board.
 
I brought up the Cadillac CTS-V as a BMW 335i competitor and gave a argument for it and y'all found every excuse in the world to not have it allowed on the forum also.
 
What I'm coming up with is some of y'all will find a reason/excuse for any vehical that rivals or exceeds a BMW's performance and/or luxury and ban it from the forum.
 
That's fine. If you want to have a forum with all like minded "BMW Lovers" only people then I suppose you succeeded. Y'all only allow competition when it's clear the BMW trumps it. Wow, that sounds like fun. It's like playing poker and stacking the deck. I and other posters aren't afraid of a good debate.
 
Happy Posting
 
Rocky

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#7 of 151 Is the Audi A4 a performance sedan ? by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (9:53 am)

I saw some think it is a entry-lux performance sedan. If the A4 is a entry-lux level performance sedan, then a MKZ, is clearly also. The S4, IMHO is a entry-lux performance sedan but at over $50K it is expensive. If people don't consider it as such then Audi, really doesn't offer anything in the segment. Is the VW Passat, a entry-level lux sedan ? Well it has enough power and has luxurious enough interior IMHO to be considered. It will smoke a Audi A4, in a race and is one of the most solid cars on the road today that isn't ultra-expensive either.
 
So the question remains is both the Volkswagon Passat, and Audi A4, performance oriented luxury sedans ?
 
I say YES at least to the Passat. I'm undecided on the Audi A4
 
Rocky

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#8 of 151 Re: louiswei [rockylee] by louiswei

Nov 30, 2006 (10:17 am)

Replying to: rockylee (Nov 30, 2006 9:36 am)

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#9 of 151 Re: louiswei [louiswei] by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (11:12 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Nov 30, 2006 10:17 am)

Rocky, I am going to lay it out for you this one last time and if you still don't get it, then so be it. I am not afraid of a good debate, I am just sick and tired of a debate that goes nowhere.
 
Okay, fair enough.
 
1. The Entry Lux Performance Sedan board is not a "BMW Lovers" board. Me myself is not a "BMW Lover". Although it's hard for you to believe according to my posts the last couple days but if you see my debates with blueguydotcom earlier this year you'll believe me. Also, if I am a "BMW Lover" like you stated why would I go for a IS350 instead of the 330i. Makes no sense, right?
 
I don't know ?....Perhaps you got a deal you couldn't refuse on the IS 350 ?....Perhaps you wanted a little gadgetology to go along with straightline performance ???.....blueguydotcom, from what I gather is a true blue BMW lover. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
 
2. The reasons why MOST OF US think that the CTS-V and MKZ don't belong in the other board are DIFFERENT. MKZ failed to qualify because it does not meet the performance part of the requirement. No one would deny that the Lincoln offers plenty of standard and optional luxury but it is NOT a performance sedan. Is it faster than most other 4 doors on the road? Yes. But is it a performance-oriented sedan? NO. The ES350 does not make the list due to the same reason. However, if you want to debate which one is better between the MKZ and ES350 I'd love to do so.
 
It fails to meet the performance part ? It will nose out a Acura TL, Audi A4, in acceleration. I'd love to debate the ES350 vs. MKZ, anytime.
 
3. CTS-V failed to qualify because it is a factory-tuned special model based on its entry level sedan.
 
What in the hell do you call the BMW 335i ? It is nothing more than a factory-tuned BMW 330i or 328i. I honestly can't see the difference. It has to have a M or V label to be considered factory tuned. That's a bunch of B.S. IMHO louiswei.
 
Same reason why the M, AMG and Audi's S and RS are not qualified as well. Of course, it'll be unfair to Cadillac if we include the M, AMG, S and RS but not the -V. However, we agreed that all the special models listed above should not be included in the list so in no way we are discriminating against the CTS-V. Also, you can make a case that the loaded 335i cost almost as much as the CTS-V but the BOTTOM LINE is that if someone besides YOU wants a base 335i, he/she can have it for under $40K. On the other hand, it is NOT POSSIBLE to get a CTS-V for under $50K.
 
Okay, but it's like cheating because BMW, is a "options" company. Most car company's would be looked down upon if they did this type of buisness. Acura, offers like two trim packages for each model to keep it simple. This is the direction GM, is headed but not quite as severe as Acura.
 
Question: Does the Acura TL Type-S qualify for the forum ?
-I've seen plenty of people talk about this car as a player on the forum.
 
4. Employee discount is totally irrelavent in a discussion. Since you work for GM you'll be able to get a GM car for less. Same applies for someone works for BMW and Toyota. He or she will be able to get into a 335i or IS350 for less than you and me. Since you want to compare cars fair and square then let's make it as equal as possible. Bring in the GM employee discount into discussion can only damage your credibility and show your bias toward GM.
 
I DON'T work for General Motors or ever have. My family does work for GM, but as a former owner of a 2005' Acura TL, that should prove I am not as biased as you think.
 
5. Members in the Entry Lux Performance Sedan board do not ban cars that exceed a BMW's performance. I will use the IS350 example to back up my statement. When the IS was introduced late last year it was consider the straight line performance benchmark of the class. It totally destroyed the then 330i in the 0-60 times (sounds familiar? Hint: CTS-V). However, as you can see from top of the other board, the IS350 was still listed as one of the cars on the list. Even though many members have issues with IS's "relatively" soft suspension and the unavailability of a manual tranny but that's subjective to debates. The bottom line is we in the Entry Lux Performance Sedan board do not ban cars that exceed a BMW's performance.
  
Hope that'll clear things out a bit for you.
 
Well like I said and I'm still convinced y'all in that board have set the guidlines in a way that limits conversation of other vehicals. That is why I started this forum so we can talk about more than 335i, G35, IS350, because those are the only true players in y'alls strict guidelines. Everything else isn't worth a hoot even mentioning.
 
I hope you see where myself and others are coming from and understand why some of us were frusterated with the entry-level luxury performance forum.
 
Rocky
 
P.S. Stop by anytime.

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#10 of 151 2007 Acura TL Type-S by rockylee

Nov 30, 2006 (1:38 pm)

Although I am a hard-core Acura/Honda fan and I love the current gen TL but I am having a hard time to digest that Acura is charging over $38K for a FWD, sub 300 HP car.
  
$36K sounds like the ideal price for me.
  
What do y'all think? Am I the only one to have issue with it?
 
Not to be a jerk, but I thought factory high-performance tuned cars weren't allowed in the entry-level luxury performance sedan forum ????
 
As to your question louiswei, I owned a 2005' Acura TL Anthracite, 6-speed manual, Navi, Summer Tires. The MSRP was $36K and change. I paid $33K. I thought at the time it was the best deal on the market because of the technology offered in the car. The Lexus IS 350, I was looking at was $47K with pre-collision, and sport suspension pkg. I was going to settle for a non-sport suspension pkg. IS 350 if my memory serves me correctly it was like $2-3K cheaper so I'd still be at $44-45K.
 
I loved the design of the IS 350 but having one kid in a car seat and another one on the way I decided to get the roomier Acura TL. The Texas, Lexus dealers wouldn't budge off the MSRP. I think my best offer was $1K off MSRP but of course this car was brand new to the market and I would of had to wait for them to get the color Black with tan leather interior in. I also started figuring it up and the TL, made dollars and sense for me because I could get it for about $12K less. So is the TL-Type-S FWD er over-priced IMHO ? I'd say NO ! You get alot of car for your money and I'd be willing to bet you could knock $3-4K off MSRP. I'm not sure what current Lexus dealers are knocking off on MSRP but I'd be willing to bet it won't be as much as the acura dealers.
 
If you are a big Acura TL, fan then why not wait another 2 years for the rumored SH-AWD TL with over 300hp ? I hear some people throwing around 330hp. for the next TL. If something around that number becomes true the TL, could be a benchmark car. I know I will be drooling over it if they don't ruin that Alfa design they have working for them now.
 
Just my $0.02
 
Rocky

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