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Sedans Saturn ION Saturn Ion Starting Problems
363 messages, Last post on Nov 16, 2009 at 2:01 PM
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The posts in this thread describe to excruciating precision the starting problem in my Sister-in-law's ION. She has gotten really tired of being exactly ten minutes late for her first appointment every morning! After living with the problem for many months (and allowing the extended warranty to expire in the meantime), she implored her Saturn dealer to "Fix it this time!" He did so (it appears) by replacing the Ignition Switch ass'y (Part No. 10392423). This cost $34.06 for the part, plus $220.00 for labor -- which includes a $110 (approx) fee for "diagnosis." The dealer returned the car, warning that if this did not fix the problem, they would next replace the BCM (Body Computer) for $665. The problem has not recurred in the 11 days since the repair; we continue to cross our fingers. The dealer returned the "bad" part, so I dismantled it and snapped some photographs. I offer these for the perusal of fellow sufferers of this extremely annoying problem. You can find these photos at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyingfoxone/sets/72157618298658054/ |
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I have a pretty good relationship with the Service Manager at my local dealer and he said a replacement of the ignition switch and passlock will do it, for about $170. I've been reading through this and even did a keyword search to make sure, but it seems like nobody on here has replaced the passlock, despite the fact that everyone realizes this is the problem. Has anyone had this done?? It's gone from not starting every three weeks or so to every three days over the last week, so I'm getting to the point where I just want to get this done and hope it works. If anyone out there has had this done please let me know. Thanks. |
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Replying to: pacersbr (May 18, 2009 5:57 am) |
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Replying to: pacersbr (May 18, 2009 5:57 am) www.autotoys.com/x/product.php?productid=8564 The GM Passlock system is fairly simple, especially when compared to other makes. However, if yours is goofing up, you won’t think it’s so simple. Here’s how it works: When you first turn the key, the PCM provides power to the fuel pump, injectors, and ignition system. You can crank and start the engine. However, there’s a magnet built into the lock cylinder. As you rotate the key, the magnet passes over a Hall Effect sensor—a sensor that detects the presence of a magnetic force. The magnet produces a unique voltage when it passes over the sensor. The sensor sends this voltage signal to the Body Control Module where it is compared to a stored value. If the sent voltage doesn’t match the stored value, the PCM shuts down the fuel injectors for a minimum of 10 minutes and, well, you’re pretty screwed at that point. If you try to start the car again, you will see a blinking Security light. That’s your sign that the Passlock system has shut you down. What goes wrong: GM vehicles experience a very high failure rate in the lock cylinder and lock housing mechanisms. Fortunately, they’re fairly inexpensive and easy to replace. Testing the Passlock sytem: Remove the plastic cover shrouds from the steering column near the lock cylinder. Inside you will see the Passkey module surrounding the lock cylinder. It will have 3 wires coming out of it. Turn the key to the ON position and use a DIGITAL multimeter (Do NOT use an analog meter) to backprobe the probe the black and white wires. If you see 12 volts on the white wire and 0 volts on the black wire, you can proceed to the test for the Passkey module. If you do not see those voltage values, you have a wiring problem between the connector and the BCM. Next, connect your voltmeter to the yellow wire. It should read 5 volts. Keep the probe connected and turn the key to the off position and back to the start position. The Passlock Data Voltage has a potential of 10 different values, ranging from .86 to 4.28 volts. The voltage should drop to a voltage level between those values and stay within .02 volts of the initial reading for at least one minute. Repeat the test several times—you must receive the same voltage for each test. If you do not, replace the lock cylinder and the Passkey housing. To remove the lock cylinder, first disconnect the negative battery cable and allow the airbag to power down for 5-10 minutes. Slide the Passkey module off the cylinder housing. Insert the key and turn the lock cylinder to the start position. Place a 1/16” allen wrench into the hole on top of the lock module to release the steering column lock cylinder set pin. Then turn the lock cylinder to the RUN position and pull the lock cylinder out. Reverse the procedure to install. After you replace the cylinder and Passkey module, you will have to conduct a relearn procedure for the BCM to learn the new voltage value. Here’s the procedure: Lock doors and unlock. Clear codes. Turn key and bump starter, leave on for 10 minutes. After a few minutes the dash light will go out. At that point, turn the key to the off position for 90 seconds to 3 minutes. Repeat this procedure 3 times for a total of 30 minutes and on the 4th try the car will start. Want more information about this repair? Click on eautorepair. This is the consumer version of the professional mechanic's online shop manual Mitchell On Demand. It contains exactly the same information the professional mechanics get. You can print out every service procedure, specification, component locations, wiring and vacuum diagram, TSB, and recall related to your vehicle.
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Replying to: meron (May 19, 2009 4:33 am) |
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Replying to: meron (May 19, 2009 4:33 am) |
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Replying to: agawamguy (Mar 26, 2009 1:22 pm) |
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My son has a manual '03 Saturn Ion 3 that hasn't given us any problems before this one. He was driving it when it stopped running while exiting the turnpike. My husband thought it was the battery, so we bought a new one. It started up, but stopped running again about a half block from the house. We pushed it home, he got a jump & drove it about two miles before it stalled again, we tried jumping it again, but it wouldn't start, so we had it towed home. It hasn't started again since then. When you turn the key in the ignition, it seems like it wants to start, but something is preventing it from turning over & getting gas or something. It's been sitting out front for several months now. My son hasn't gotten around to having someone look at it so I thought I would. I wanted to go online before having it towed to the dealer so that I would be prepared & hopefully not easily duped into paying a large bill for something I didn't need done (it’s no longer under warranty). I also wanted to see if maybe it was something that my husband could fix himself. I then saw on this forum that a lot of people with Ions are having similar starting problems & not much help from the dealers. Although most of them seem to have problems with the ignition relating to cold weather. I live in Miami & we rarely see temperatures below 50. I thought it might be a problem with the passlock, locking up the car so it won't start as an anti-theft deterrent. I went out & tried to start it & I noticed the yellow padlock over the car symbol came on, but it also went off shortly after I released the key. I assume it is supposed to. I read that a lot of people got around a similar situation by either installing a remote starter to the ignition or by cutting the white wire leading from the ignition to bypass this problem, although they said that the car had to be running when the wire is cut. I don’t think a remote starter would work on a manual transmission & would like to try the white wire fix, but my problem is how do you do that if the car won't start at all? I saw in one of the replies, someone had a link to a place that sold remote starters. They offered to sell online a way to temporarily start the car to repair it. I thought that I could do that & then cut the white wire, but my husband pointed out that it may not even work with a manual transmission. They don’t have a # to call & ask. Do any of you know of how to start it temporarily & if it would work on a manual car? I tried calling the dealer's service department to see about taking it in & he started playing so many games, I guess because he thought I was a dumb "women" who wouldn't know any better. I really don't want to pay to have it towed there for service now! Have any of you all had a similar problem in warm weather, some suggestions or advice? I'm hoping my husband, who is very capable will be able to take care of this problem. I've even fixed a few things in our vehicles myself. I did think to look at the fuses on the driver’s side of the center console, but the first one I pulled, happened to be the 15A BCM (PWR) fuse. It looked ok, so I replaced it & since it started to rain, I quit & tried to start it just to see if anything was different. When I went to start it, I mistakenly put my daughter’s Ion key in the ignition & it wouldn’t even turn (as would be expected). When I put the right key in, it turned & didn’t do anything this time, but make a clicking sound similar to a turn signal, but louder. I feel like I just took another step back & now may be worse off. Thanks in advance for any help you may have.
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Replying to: loratika (May 24, 2009 6:24 pm)
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Replying to: chemistry (May 27, 2009 10:37 am)
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