Last post on Oct 10, 2013 at 7:55 AM
You are in the Toyota Avalon
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Avalon, Future Vehicle, Sedan
#36 of 965 Re: 2008 Avalon Wish List... [captain2]
Mar 27, 2007 (9:23 am)
"..why the consumer even wants them..."
My 2001 Porsche 911/996 C4 has DBW and I have absolutely no complaints.
The real problem is that Toyota/Lexus adopted the DBW system as a fix, solution, for another problem that seemingly could not be solved otherwise. They adopted the automatic transaxle upshift technique back at the beginning of the RX production run and that resulted in premature transaxle failures for those models.
But the most obvious solution would have been to redesign the transaxle with a variable displacement ATF oil pump as Ford has done but that really is a major redesign whereas adopting the DBW system is relatively simple.
And then asking those computer nerds to throw in a 2-3 second throttle opening delay while the transaxle is downshifting to the more appropreate gear ratios is another simple matter.
#37 of 965 Re: 2008 Avalon Wish List... [captain2]
Mar 27, 2007 (9:25 am)
Acetylene headlights metamorphosed to electricity, sealed beams, halogen, HID versions; brakes from two-wheel, contracting, to four-wheel expanding, front-disk/rear-drum, all-wheel disk; aircraft from fabric to aluminum, titanium, fly-by-wire.
Without such progress, the possibility of a 270-horsepower, two-ton vehicle travelling above 70mph while attaining over 30 mpg, would be unlikely. It seems clear that most consumers prefer the fruits of invention. The decades-old Crown Victoria design is being remaindered while its maker flounders toward the future with too little, too late. Some stumbles by manufacturers trying too much or too soon are less likely to be fatal to the organization.
#38 of 965 Re: 2008 Avalon Wish List... [gws]
Mar 27, 2007 (10:03 am)
no argument here, I drive a wonderful 05 Av Touring, get 27 mpg overall, and still have power that rivals most of those 60-70s 'muscle cars'. It is somewhat contradictory, loving those parts of this technology that serve my purpose, and loathing that part that doesn't.
#39 of 965 Re: 2008 Avalon Wish List... [wwest]
Mar 27, 2007 (10:57 am)
The real problem is that Toyota/Lexus adopted the DBW system as a fix, solution, for another problem that seemingly could not be solved otherwise
you're sure that is not more like - hey, these 'safety' systems sell like hotcakes, the government will be requiring them shortly anyway, so let's put in the DBW and then, we can address things like TS and engine braking issues more easily? Chicken or the egg.
Nissans were selling just fine at the time of the RX intro with hellatious TS and correspondent engine braking issues without the DBW. Don't perceive that either the consumer or even the 'safety' nuts thought it was that much of a problem at the time (say 2002-03). The new Maximas/Altimas, though, this has 'disappeared' into electronic never-never land in combination with that CVT.
#40 of 965 Re: 2008 Avalon Wish List... [captain2]
Mar 27, 2007 (12:18 pm)
It's not that I don't agree you, at least partially, but the fact of the matter is that Toyota/Lexus has not yet fully solved the FWD transaxle problem even using DBW to delay the onset of engine torque when the accelerator pedal is depressed shortly after a FULL lift-throttle coastdown event.
The other issue is from an emissions startpoint, government, EPA, CARB, regulations. Using the SFI system to cut fuel and thereby reduce engine torque to accommodate these so called safety systems, VSC/Trac/BA/EBD/ABS/etc, was undoubtedly the most inexpensive method of accomplishing that task.
But simply reducing the fuel flow but not closing the throttle to reduce airflow would quite certainly get the attention of those agencies.
But, in your favor, totally, if the issue of engine RPM matching to road speed to reduce engine compression braking in the new Suzuki SX4 with manual transaxle is actually true then clearly a DBW system was required for that.
#41 of 965 Toyota's Flagship
Mar 28, 2007 (4:56 pm)
Toyota has Bluetooth capabilities on many of its car, just not the Avalon. Why not?
The 3.5 engine is fantastic in power and gas mileage. I am glad to see Toyota using it also in the Camry, Rav-4, Sienna and Highlander for 2008.
Not everybody likes having a sunroof, so hopefuuly one day they will offer more solid hardtops.
#42 of 965 2008 Hybrid Avalon?
Apr 15, 2007 (10:26 am)
Since Toyota/Lexus have introduced the Camry, LS and GS platforms with hybrid engines, any idea when that will occur with the Avalon...2008? Thanks
#43 of 965 2008 Avalon Must Haves
Apr 21, 2007 (5:21 pm)
Today, we visited a dealership and looked at the Avalon. These three things are making us decide to wait for the 2008s.
1. Standard VSC - safety. Note: it bugs me that in TX I have to "buy up" in trim level, i.e., XLS with packaged VSC & heated seats, just to safeguard my family with VSC. Maybe the economics of offering VSC dictates that practice, or maybe Gulf States Toyota is the culprit - I don't know.
2. Bluetooth - safety (hands free). Let's do what we can to eradicate dorky wireless earpieces everywhere.
3. MP3 auxilary - current technology. Thanks, but I can do without the cassette player now. 100 million DAPs sold, but at last check Toyota's flagship sedan can't connect to any of them.
We keep our cars for 10 years. In 5 years, almost every car will have all three, right? So half its life, we would be missing out on some important advancements in safety and technology.
So when is the earliest we will all know what changes are made for 2008?
#44 of 965 The Green Avalon---Maybe?
Apr 22, 2007 (1:59 am)
See---'SAE Show: Toyota to focus on fuel efficient large cars?'
Link: link title
#45 of 965 Re: 2008 Avalon Must Haves [zebra5]
Apr 29, 2007 (10:03 am)
I'll keep hoping to see the right answer to #43. My Acura lease ends in August, and the answer will determine whether an '08 Avalon will be a "slam dunk" (sorry, couldn't resist) or another good contender.