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Automotive News & Views Cars of My Past
189 messages, Last post on Jul 05, 2007 at 2:53 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: irismg (Mar 26, 2007 9:54 am) I'm not defending Ford, just stating the facts. |
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I agree with nvbanker. While it goes without saying that irismg has every right to his preference, it's unfortunate that bad experiences frequently act to deny consumers of good choices, long after the products that caused them problems have been replaced by totally reengineered models. Indeed, one of the great challenges for the domestic car brands is that many people won't even consider a domestic brand because of problems they had 20-30 years ago, even though the successors to the cars they once owned are now competitive in the marketplace. And, in many cases, the perceptions of the children of these people are the same as their parents'. They may buy more youthful models - a Scion, say, instead of a Camry - but its from the same manufacturer as the one that sits in their parents' driveway. To their credit, Toyota and Honda, in particular, have built up a tremendous reservoir of good will, just as GM, and to a lesser extent Ford and Chrysler, had done in the '30s, '40s, '50s and '60s. The upshot is that the domestic companies will have to offer better and more exciting products, at a competitive price, to win back market share. Their best hope is if Toyota and Honda make some mistakes, as GM did after it had reached the pinnacle. It will be really difficult for the domestics to thrive if Toyota and Honda, and now Hyundai, stay on top of their game.
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Bought my first car in '87 while in college. My brother and I go to a used car dealer and he gives us the keys for a test drive. I CAREFULLY take it out of the lot and get on the interstate. My brother asks me "when did you learn how to drive a stickshift," and I tell him "this is my first time, but don't worry, I've read a book on it." Amazingly, I did pretty good and only stalled it once at a stoplight and ended up buying the car. It had about 80K miles and I think I paid around $2K. This little truck was very basic with no A/C or power steering (took a bit of effort to parallel park). The rear end was so light that I once pushed it sideways on ice to get unstuck. I put a camper shell on it and took canoes everywhere. I put a trailer hitch on it and pulled small sailboats to local lakes. It had a small 2.0L or 2.2L engine and 5 spd. tranny. It got me around the country after college, but the clutch did give out on a trip to Canada at around 110K miles. It had warned me though, with a subtle higher pitch drone sound from the gearbox. Live and learn! Funny, I don't ever recall it slipping prior to failure. I sold the Sundowner in '91 with 123K miles when I got a new job. I saw one in great condition a couple of summers ago at a local library. I now live further south, and most of those era Japanese cars/trucks rusted out up north. |
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Replying to: hpmctorque (Mar 27, 2007 4:20 am) One thing that hurts Ford more than most cars is their longevity. One study of cars in one state (Ohio?) took the registrations of all brands in a given year, and then looked at what percentage were still registered in ensuing years. At 12 years, Ford moved into #1, and each year thereafter, the margin got wider. Why does this hurt Ford? Well there are a lot of old cheap Fords still running, and usually become a persons first car. Since they are old, the teenager longs for that newer other brand with less rattles and problems. And the old Fords with their $30 starters and $50 alternators are kept running while the $300 alternator on the old Toyota is too expensive to keep the old junker running, so they are scrapped out. Looking at the list of first cars on this Forum adds evidence to this When I was a kid, this same situation used to work against Chev and for Ford, but that changed in the 60s. |
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At 12 years, Ford moved into #1, and each year thereafter, the margin got wider. Interesting - I thought I was the only person who knew that. For some reason, Ford Bigots bother me the most, because 90% of them have never had one. They just know someone who did in 1957, and couldn't keep the back doors closed or something.... Young Adults are fascinating - I hear all the time, "I don't like Fords" from them, but they have no idea why. Ford has some real repair work to do to their image. In the 60's, they had some terrific advertising, where they actually showed the car!! (Gasp) instead of some lifestyle ad where only the liftgate and a headlight are featured, but the girls inside surf. It showed a Mustang driving in the mountains, the music was upbeat with a message that Ford was winning the car war. It inspired me to get one, and old used one, but I liked it and stayed with Ford mostly, for years. And most of them treated me well. They were the cars of my past by and large. I still think they were the best cars in some models and years. But though they may run forever, the company doesn't, and stalls frequently, runs with fits and starts and the transmission slips often in the Board Room. I sincerely hope ARM can put this old company back on the road again. But he won't be there forever either, and who knows who will come after him, if there is an after him..... History of this company is fascinating - but inconsistent. |
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Few people seem to know that GM really started with the merger of Durant (Buick) and Cadillac: Hope my memory has that correct. Shortly thereafter, Oldsmobile was added to the list; Durant was thrown out, and together with car racers Francois and Louis Chevrolet, started Chevie. It was later merged with Durant back at the head of his GM company. Now here is the interesting part. Who founded "Cadillac"? None other than Henry Ford. It was the first Ford Motor Company; Henry was thrown out by his bankers, who changed the name to Cadillac, and Henry Started a second, new Ford Motor COmpany, which is the current company. Henry hated banks thereafter; his primary backer in the second company was (drum roll please) Dodge Brothers. SOunds like corporate incest if you ask me.
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Replying to: cptchetco (Mar 30, 2007 7:56 am) Yes, and then the Dodge Brothers walked out on him too, and started Dodge. Henry was tough to get along with, and he never listened to anybody, except maybe Clara, his wife, on occasion. |
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as one of those who has an illogical hatred of Ford. Or, at least, I did when I was younger, but have pretty much grown out of it, although I still like to rag on them from time to time. But hey, if I'm in the right mood, I'll rag on Mopar, and I've had more Mopars than anything!  I think I got most of my Ford hatred infused within me by two people: My Dad, and my Granddad on my Mom's side. Dad was always a Chevy man, and his parents always drove Fords, so I think part of that Ford hatred was just kind of a rebellion against his parents. As for my Granddad, he was a shadetree mechanic, and I think his main thing is that he better understood the way GM cars were put together, and could work on them better. The way GM did things just made sense to him, whereas the way Fords were put together just seemed stupid to him. And I can understand that logic, to a degree. Often when you're used to the way one thing works, any other way just seems alien, stupid, wrong, or whatever. Heck, I've even noticed it with the GM cars I've had...the Mopars just seemed easier to work on. Still, I wouldn't write off a Ford product in my future, if they made something that really caught my eye. And I'll admit that, if forced to choose right now between a Fusion/Milan, Sebring/Avenger, or a Malibu/G6/Aura, which fall into about the size category I'd go for, more or less, I'd probably lean toward Dearborn. Although I do kinda like the Aura.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Apr 01, 2007 5:26 pm) |
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Replying to: andre1969 (Apr 01, 2007 5:26 pm) However, Ford had more wiring problems, and made continual production line changes making it difficult for mechanics. No two cars seemed to be the same. For example, I restored a 1941 Ford Convert; there are no less than 8 different distributors and 3 carburators, and two different hood raising arrangements all in the same car. Mechanics of the era were not Ford fans, unless they were racers. In 1955, Chevie came out with an exciting car, and had the best of both worlds for the next few years. For some inexplicable reason, during the mid 1960s, its cars started to be the ones with electrical problems. We used to joke that the reason the Impala had six tailights is so that the odds were, at least one would work. The front suspensions were problematic, and they started making production line changes without any reference to the model #s. Meanwhile Ford got control of its traditional wiring problems and had been using a more rust resistant steel alloy in their bodies. Also FOrd standardized its Starters, Alternators, Oil filters etc. (This is no longer the case, since it uses so many different engines derived from US, Germany and Japan.) As a result, Ford parts became far cheaper than the competitors and the basic car lasts longer, not necessarily more trouble free, but relatively cheap and easy to repair, so they go on and on being repaired while the owner wishes he could get a newer car of some other brand. Another example is for long after GM had followed the Japanese into selling "modules", you could still get the specific part for a Ford. A failed bearing in an "A" arm could be purchased for about $15-20, instead of $300 for an "A" arm assembly, when the only thing wrong was the one bearing. So instead of junking the 1980 Citation, you would be working on your Pinto changing the bearing lying in the driveway while your Mom was hollaring at you to come in and change your clothes.
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