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Future Vehicles Chevrolet Volt Concept
28 messages, Last post on Jul 30, 2008 at 3:44 AM
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Chevrolet Volt! Read about it and then then talk about this new hybrid concept here. General Motors' first plug-in hybrid, the Chevrolet Volt concept, introduces GM's new family of electric-drive propulsion systems
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| I could go for it if, instead of a sedan, they'd put their e-flex drivetrain in something on the order of the HHR. Although I'd prefer less 1/2-scale '55 Suburban look. | |
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Replying to: KarenS (Jan 08, 2007 12:45 pm) Of course, another way GM could look at it is that they should get the car production ready based on the assumption that there will be an acceptable (to them) battery available by the time the car is ready. This way, the only last minute changes could be making room for the battery packs they've chosen (I just read that EEStor is still in the running and has progressed to their next phase of preparation). 
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Replying to: KarenS (Jan 08, 2007 12:45 pm) The Toyota RAV4-EV runs on nickel-metal-hydride batteries that last longer than the life of the vehicle. Toyota, for six months in 2002, offered the last 328 RAV4-EV to the general public. They were snapped up, and all (except one that was rear-ended) remain on the road today, faultlessly driving up to 80 mph for up to 120 miles on a charge. Many EV drivers make their own electric; EVs are so efficient even a small solar system can pay for daily driving with excess electric production. The batteries used by these RAV4-EV, by Honda, Ford and even GM, are Nickel-Metal-Hydride ("NiMH"), which were certified as lasting longer than the life of the vehicle. They have adequate power, and balance the cost of the batteries with the high value of recovering the valuable nickel metal used in making them, after their long career of perhaps 200,000 miles of care-free, oil-free driving might be done. GM has mixed motives, at best, in announcing their serial plug-in hybrid. GM is to be praised for settling on the serial configuration, similar to a diesel-electric locomotive, where the only source of traction power is the electric motor. The small gas engine is used only occasionally, and only to generate electric for long trips or if the batteries are low. The serial hybrid allows many solar homeowners to drive essentially "oil-free" for the daily grind, only occasionally relying upon gas or diesel, and makes electric traction power practical for everyone. But GM, if it were serious, could build the serial plug-in hybrid today, using existing NiMH batteries. The existing RAV4-EV, using NiMH, are instant serial-hybrid EVs if a small under-the-hood or trailer-mounted 1000 CC generator is added. Usually, for the first 120 miles, this small SUV would rely on its battery store of off-peak electric power; normally, that would be enough for the day's driving. On the few occasions that the EV were used for long trips, or if the driver forgot to charge the batteries, the gas generator would fire up. Because the electric motor direct drive train is so efficient, the electric from a 40 hp generator is enough to keep this SUV at 80 mph all day. The key problem with the GM announcement is that GM relies not on NiMH, but on uncertain "research" into other battery chemistries. Even worse, this "research" is handed to Chevron Oil, which has absolutely no interest in allowing cars to be powered by electric from the wall or from solar electric systems. Chevron being involved means that they will ignore NiMH, and postpone things for another generation -- or more -- if we let them. There are no technical hurdles, no research needed; all that's needed is an honest interest in making the serial plug-in hybrid, which is proven, practical, and, essentially, here now with the 328 privately-owned Toyota RAV4-EV (over 900 RAV4-EV if fleet RAV4-EV are included). The very real Electric cars, thanks to Toyota's selling those 328 RAV4-EV, drive essentially oil-free, relying upon off-peak power paid for by on-peak production of critically needed daytime power. "...GM awarded development contracts to...Chevron Corp...for lithium-ion batteries...GM executives know that many will interpret the Volt prototype as a public-relations exercise..." So GM, with the aid of Chevron, seems determined to kill the Electric car all over again. There are many solar-EV ("PV-EV") homes which would welcomer you for a test drive in a RAV4-EV and demonstration of solar rooftop power. For example, we powered two RAV4-EV last year, and still donated $89 in excess electric power to SCE.
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Replying to: KarenS (Jan 08, 2007 12:45 pm)
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Replying to: bumpy (Jan 20, 2007 4:30 am) used in the crappy EV1 version 2 was overpriced , too heavy, etc. etc. Those Rav 4 owners are in for a big surprise when their batteries go south. Toyota wants $35,000 to replace them, according to a recent article in a California paper. If you had listened to what GM said, you'd know that their bogeys cannot even remotely be met by the short lived, expensive, heavy NiMH bateries. Or by li ion either. I find it strange that our amateur "experts" here apparently don't realize that NONE of the major automakers believe that a practical battery exists for a plug-in application. They all agree with GM. I agree with all of them. If you want a plug-in right now, I suggest you can spend $12,000 and have your Prius modified by one of those fly-by-night companies, using some of your "perfectly good" batteries. Of course, the range won't be anywhere near the 40 miles of the VOLT. And the batteries will need replacement within 5 years. Then you can come back and tell us all about those "perfectly good batteries."
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The Chevy VOLT looks a lot better than the wildly overpriced and under-ranged Tesla, the car with the umbilical cord. And $20,000+ battery pack that won't last over 5 years. If a revolutionary battery , such as the EESTor proves that it can do as advertised, the VOLT will be produced as an all-electric. The electric car crowd simply won't admit that a plug-in hybrid can do almost as much as an all-electric fleet of cars in reducing oil dependence. The actual differences on oil consumption would be relatively unimportant. Of course, we'd all prefer to see a practical electric car. Anything as crappy as the EV1 or EV or Rav 4 electric wouldn't garner any significant public support, which should be obvious to even the diehards by the pitifully small sales numbers - they are way too inconvenient, range bound, and costly in terms of batteries and the fact that you have to own at least two cars, one of which has to be gas powered. The EV1 was no more advanced than the Detroit Electric first produced in 1907 in the important attributes of range and time to recharge. GM should never have brought the EV1 to market. |
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A great looking car. Not a great look, a REALLY great looking car! I think the front end looks like the new Camaro, just smaller. Photos of the Chevy Volt |
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Replying to: bumpy (Jan 20, 2007 4:30 am) Production depends on advances in battery technology that could be years away.”;GM tries to unplug Volt hype, Sharon Terlep / The Detroit News http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070323/AUTO01/703230356/1148- If the “VOLT” really achieves 50 mpg when the the battery charge is depleted, then, it stands to reason EVEN WITHOUT THE “advances in battery technology ” GM ALREADY HAS A "MILD" HYBRID  TODAY! As a 50 mpg hybrid (producable today), the “VOLT” would REDUCE CO2 emissions by possibly as much as 170 g/km. Soooo, it can’t do 40 miles “all electric” ... BIIIG DEEEAL! A savings of 170 g/km is a significant impact worthy of serious consideration. Further, so would the about a 50% (possibly more) reduction fuel consumption over the typical domestic vehicle offerings. To GM ~  WHY THE DELAY?  All GM has to do is save space for a field retrofit when the proper battery pack is available and for current production use a smaller/less expensive battery pack. And I agree with you about a very small CLEAN NEW turbo diesel would probably get in the 60 to 70 mpg combined average range  ... BUT I don't believe GM knows how to build one that is quiet, smooth, reliable, and durable with a wide RPM range.
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If GM were serious, it need not engage in Lithium "research". The Nickel Metal Hydride ("NiMH") batteries used in hundreds of Toyota RAV4-EV, and formerly used in the 1999 EV1, the Ranger-EV and Honda EV-plus, fulfill all the specifications required for the Volt. GM is planning to drag its heels until 2010 or 2012, when it expects the NiMH batteries running our Toyota RAV4-EV fleet to finally wear out. GM is just plain ignoring the existing, standard EV batteries, the ones still giving us over 100 miles range. GM has never answered the challenge: http://drivingthefuture.com/#Challenge This is a Challenge for GM to prove its claims, and prove its Volt announcement wasn't just a cover for killing the Electric car all over again. The challenge below has not been answered with substance by GM, because their position is wrong. The facts show that NiMH works fine, has adequate power, and has a low life-cycle cost.
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