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Honda/Acura Odometer Class Action Suit

73 messages,  Last post on Jun 05, 2008 at 6:02 AM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Acura RL, Acura TL, Honda Odyssey, Automotive News, Sedan

Messages Page 2 of 8

#7 of 73 Re: Here is a Local News Story on the issue out of Atlanta [ray_h1] by cstiles

Jan 05, 2007 (7:13 pm)

Replying to: ray_h1 (Jan 05, 2007 9:27 am)
I own multiple Hondas/Acuras, so received 3 different notices about this lawsuit relating to cars I've owned or currently own. If you read through the fine print of how the class action was developed, it started with a single Odyssey owner in Texas, who complained that her odometer reading was slightly off. A 2nd consumer jumped on the case, and a law firm went trolling to build the case for the class.
 
This is a good example of a case where a very small minority of Honda owners may reap a small benefit in isolated cases (regardless of whether their odometers may have been faulty or not), while trial lawyers laugh all the way to the bank. For Honda to have litigated this case to disprove allegations that their odometers were defective would have cost millions of dollars. It was cheaper for them to concede, admit no wrongdoing, but agree to extend warranties or lease buyouts by 2-3% beyond the stated mileage limits.
 
This also only pertains to mileage limits. The 3 year portion of the warranty that applies to nearly all Hondas is not affected, so the benefits of this class action are extremely small for consumers. But a few lawyers got rich in the process.
 
There's no question that some odometers regardless of make are defective or miscalibrated. But to subject all Honda or Acura owners to be included in this class is a waste of money and judicial resources. I threw my notices into the trash.

#8 of 73 Re: Here is a Local News Story on the issue out of Atlanta [cstiles] by kennyg8

Jan 06, 2007 (3:54 pm)

Replying to: cstiles (Jan 05, 2007 7:13 pm)
Who will benefit in a class action assuming Honda/Acura is found to be negligent in odometer calibration? The lawyers instead of the car owners. In any event, in the most likely scenario, Honda/Acura will pay a settlement sum without acknowledging any mistake.
 
If the odometer calibration is 3-4% higher than actual readings -- mpg values will be deceptively higher, limited mileage warranty will be shorter, and maintenance intervals will be more frequent. These factors seem to disfavor car owners. However, higher odometer readings may actually reduce the number of speeding tickets, as we all tend to drive a bit slower when the odometer edges to the right. So, take the positive and negatives, and disregard the class action notice.

#9 of 73 ? by harvey44

Jan 07, 2007 (7:41 pm)

However, higher odometer readings may actually reduce the number of speeding tickets, as we all tend to drive a bit slower when the odometer edges to the right. So, take the positive and negatives, and disregard the class action notice.
 
??????? What ??????

#10 of 73 Interestingly... by habitat1

Jan 07, 2007 (7:50 pm)

...when I took a laptop computer with GPS software into my former Honda S2000, the digital odometer and speedometer were absolutely, exactly, correct. The computer measured mph in 1/10 mph increments. I could set my cruise control on 65 mph in the S2000 and the computer read 65.0 mph. Tap it up, and as soon as the computer hit 65.6 mph, the S2000's speedometer went to 66 and vice-versa. the odometer in a 300 mile trip was reading exactly the same as the GPS.
 
In our MDX, the damn odometer is off by 3%.
 
Frankly, for a company to claim that 3-4% is within the regulated amount of error for the odometer is pure BS. They can calibrate it to within .1% accuracy without breaking a sweat. Lots of manufacturers are known to have high reading speedometers. BMW and Porsche to name a couple. My 911 speedometer (digital readout) reads 65 mph when I'm actually only going 61 mph, That's a 7%+ error. But on a 370 mile highway trip to our second home, the odometer reads 370.3 miles when the independent GPS logged 370.2. Our MDX shows 381.4 for the same trip.
 
I am certainly no fan of trial lawyers. But I have no sympathy for an auto manufacturer that is as good as Acura/Honda, playing games with the odometer readings. You know damn well this is not an innocent mistake. This is the same company that can squeeze 120 hp out of 2 liters in the S2000. And yet an MDX odometer reads precisely 3% too high.
 
If they were really within some bogus range of error, there would be 50% of odometers reading too low. I guarantee you, there isn't a single one doing that. And I'll put up my 911 on that bet.

#11 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by cstiles

Jan 07, 2007 (8:39 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 07, 2007 7:50 pm)
Are they really playing games though? Is Honda (or any manufacturer) that unethical to consider intentionally altering odometers to reap higher revenues, risking substantial penalties or embarrassment in today's litigious environment? I just don't see the cost-benefit when you weigh the potential downsides, ethical standards notwithstanding.
 
Over time, can't odometers deviate due to myriad factors? Tire pressure, slight variations in alignment, electrical pulses or surges, varying temperatures screwing up the precision of the instruments, software glitches, etc.? I'm not convinced that these readings were ever intended to be that precise.
 
Take for example, external temperature monitors. I know a few people who go ballistic when their temp readings are off by 1 degree, and demand that the carmaker replace the unit under warranty. I usually tell them to get a life and worry about more important things.
 
I don't believe that these instruments were ever designed to be exactly precise. The technology used is inexpensive, and 95% of consumers understand and really don't get their underpants in a bind, until one day some lawyer taps them on the shoulder and suggests this could be their lucky lotto jackpot. The rest of us consumers included as class members get coupons for $1.29, thanks to the settlement.
 
There is no question that our judicial system should offer checks and balances, and keep Corporate America honest. There are good examples of this in recent history. However, there are also far too many examples of lawyers chasing the all might dollar and filing frivolous class action lawsuits, screwing with the legal system, to the detriment of all consumers. On the surface, this Honda case smells like that to me.

#12 of 73 My 2006 Accord Odometer - by thegraduate

Jan 07, 2007 (9:39 pm)

Is right at or just below the indicated speed. (I drove at 40 MPH on the needle, and the Garmin Streetpilot C330 I got for Christmas read 39).

#13 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [cstiles] by habitat1

Jan 08, 2007 (6:34 am)

Replying to: cstiles (Jan 07, 2007 8:39 pm)
First, for those others (not you) that seem to be confusing the two:
 
- Odometer: measures distance.
- Speedometer: measures speed.
 
If a manufacturer wants to fudge their speedometer +/- 5%, that's not necessarily a punishable offense. I don't like it that I have to calibrate in my mind that a 74 reading in my 911 is actually the "safe" 69 for avoiding a speeding ticket on the PA turnpike, but so be it. The issue with Honda/Acura is consistently high reading odometers.
 
Over time, can't odometers deviate due to myriad factors? Tire pressure, slight variations in alignment, electrical pulses or surges, varying temperatures screwing up the precision of the instruments, software glitches, etc.? I'm not convinced that these readings were ever intended to be that precise.
 
In short, NO. Sure, in theory a slight deviation could occur if you decide to inflate your tires to 80 lbs of pressure with helium. But using an average tire size, they go 700 revolutions per mile. Or, say, about 7.50 feet per revolution. Consistently reading 3% high would mean that your odometer is reading 7.50 feet when your tire is only going 7.27 feet. That's over 2 3/4" off on every revolution. If, in reality, your alignment, air pressure, or any other mechanical system was causing even a fraction of that kind of variation, your car would likely blow up at 65 mph with the resonant frequencies that would result.
 
I bought a $29 odometer for my daughter's bicyle. It measures to 0.01 mile increments and is guaranteed accurate to within 0.1%, according to the owners manual (but still not to be used for "official" marathon or event measurement). She's ridden an accurately measured bike/jogging path with 0.1 mile markers (which is used for running 10k races) and it's dead on. So if Trek can sell a bicylce odometer that is accurate to within 0.1% for $29, I think Honda can do better than 30+ times worse.
 
Imagine if Honda/Acura's GPS systems were off by 3% over the United States. That would be up to a 100 mile variation from coast to coast. They'd have you looking for Main Street in the wrong bloody State. But in my TL and MDX, they can tell me which side of the street to look for my destination, whether I'm in Pittsburgh or Boston.
 
Don't make excuses for Honda/Acura. They have some of the world's best automotive engineers, as my experience with the S2000 validates. The fact that certain models have odometers that are consistently reading high is not an accident. And they are probably not the only violator, as my old Nissan Maxima at 155k miles was off by about 2% (equal to 3,100 miles).

#14 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by thegraduate

Jan 08, 2007 (9:18 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 08, 2007 6:34 am)
A speedometer and an odomoter are related, don't forget that. If one is off, the other likely is too. When the speedometer in my 1996 Accord stopped working (it would go down to zero, even at highway speeds) the odometer stopped working as well. When it would pick back up (it was off-and-on) the odometer would start rolling again.

#15 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [thegraduate] by habitat1

Jan 08, 2007 (11:00 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Jan 08, 2007 9:18 am)
While it is true that the speedometer and odometer are often "related" as you describe (i.e. both working or both not), they are not necessarily related in their calibration.
 
In the case of my 911, the speedometer reads 5-7% too high, but the odometer is spot on, compared to an independent GPS. In the case of my former Nissan Maxima, the speedometer was about 3% high, the odometer 2%. And in the case of our MDX, the speedometer is close to spot on, whereas the odometer is 3% high. So one reading high or low doesn't necessarily mean the other one is. And, once I figured out the percentage of discrepency, it was constant. No variation due to temperature, relative humidity or stereo volume.
 
If you do a lot of driving over the same 370 mile route like I have done the last 20 years, you notice these little discrepencies, which turn out to be as much as a 12+ mile swing in odometer readings. Someone once suggested that maybe the higher reading comes from doing more "passing" rather than driving the entire route in the right hand lane. So on one particularly boring drive by myself, I went back and forth between the right and left lanes about once per mile, passing or not. It added about 0.2 miles to the trip. And nearly made me sea-sick.

#16 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by cstiles

Jan 08, 2007 (1:52 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 08, 2007 11:00 am)
Good posts, Habitat. You've certainly educated me. Perhaps there is a conspiracy, or at the very least an arrogant, casual attitude about odometer accuracy at Honda. If true, they should be taken to the woodshed with respect to their product liability.
 
Besides, if the instruments are indeed subject to being slightly inaccurate, they should be off kilter in both directions. Apparently that is not the case, which is suspect by itself.

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