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Honda/Acura Odometer Class Action Suit

73 messages,  Last post on Jun 05, 2008 at 6:02 AM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Acura RL, Acura TL, Honda Odyssey, Automotive News, Sedan

Messages Page 2 of 8

#11 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by cstiles

Jan 07, 2007 (8:39 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 07, 2007 7:50 pm)
Are they really playing games though? Is Honda (or any manufacturer) that unethical to consider intentionally altering odometers to reap higher revenues, risking substantial penalties or embarrassment in today's litigious environment? I just don't see the cost-benefit when you weigh the potential downsides, ethical standards notwithstanding.
 
Over time, can't odometers deviate due to myriad factors? Tire pressure, slight variations in alignment, electrical pulses or surges, varying temperatures screwing up the precision of the instruments, software glitches, etc.? I'm not convinced that these readings were ever intended to be that precise.
 
Take for example, external temperature monitors. I know a few people who go ballistic when their temp readings are off by 1 degree, and demand that the carmaker replace the unit under warranty. I usually tell them to get a life and worry about more important things.
 
I don't believe that these instruments were ever designed to be exactly precise. The technology used is inexpensive, and 95% of consumers understand and really don't get their underpants in a bind, until one day some lawyer taps them on the shoulder and suggests this could be their lucky lotto jackpot. The rest of us consumers included as class members get coupons for $1.29, thanks to the settlement.
 
There is no question that our judicial system should offer checks and balances, and keep Corporate America honest. There are good examples of this in recent history. However, there are also far too many examples of lawyers chasing the all might dollar and filing frivolous class action lawsuits, screwing with the legal system, to the detriment of all consumers. On the surface, this Honda case smells like that to me.

#12 of 73 My 2006 Accord Odometer - by thegraduate

Jan 07, 2007 (9:39 pm)

Is right at or just below the indicated speed. (I drove at 40 MPH on the needle, and the Garmin Streetpilot C330 I got for Christmas read 39).

#13 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [cstiles] by habitat1

Jan 08, 2007 (6:34 am)

Replying to: cstiles (Jan 07, 2007 8:39 pm)
First, for those others (not you) that seem to be confusing the two:
 
- Odometer: measures distance.
- Speedometer: measures speed.
 
If a manufacturer wants to fudge their speedometer +/- 5%, that's not necessarily a punishable offense. I don't like it that I have to calibrate in my mind that a 74 reading in my 911 is actually the "safe" 69 for avoiding a speeding ticket on the PA turnpike, but so be it. The issue with Honda/Acura is consistently high reading odometers.
 
Over time, can't odometers deviate due to myriad factors? Tire pressure, slight variations in alignment, electrical pulses or surges, varying temperatures screwing up the precision of the instruments, software glitches, etc.? I'm not convinced that these readings were ever intended to be that precise.
 
In short, NO. Sure, in theory a slight deviation could occur if you decide to inflate your tires to 80 lbs of pressure with helium. But using an average tire size, they go 700 revolutions per mile. Or, say, about 7.50 feet per revolution. Consistently reading 3% high would mean that your odometer is reading 7.50 feet when your tire is only going 7.27 feet. That's over 2 3/4" off on every revolution. If, in reality, your alignment, air pressure, or any other mechanical system was causing even a fraction of that kind of variation, your car would likely blow up at 65 mph with the resonant frequencies that would result.
 
I bought a $29 odometer for my daughter's bicyle. It measures to 0.01 mile increments and is guaranteed accurate to within 0.1%, according to the owners manual (but still not to be used for "official" marathon or event measurement). She's ridden an accurately measured bike/jogging path with 0.1 mile markers (which is used for running 10k races) and it's dead on. So if Trek can sell a bicylce odometer that is accurate to within 0.1% for $29, I think Honda can do better than 30+ times worse.
 
Imagine if Honda/Acura's GPS systems were off by 3% over the United States. That would be up to a 100 mile variation from coast to coast. They'd have you looking for Main Street in the wrong bloody State. But in my TL and MDX, they can tell me which side of the street to look for my destination, whether I'm in Pittsburgh or Boston.
 
Don't make excuses for Honda/Acura. They have some of the world's best automotive engineers, as my experience with the S2000 validates. The fact that certain models have odometers that are consistently reading high is not an accident. And they are probably not the only violator, as my old Nissan Maxima at 155k miles was off by about 2% (equal to 3,100 miles).

#14 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by thegraduate

Jan 08, 2007 (9:18 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 08, 2007 6:34 am)
A speedometer and an odomoter are related, don't forget that. If one is off, the other likely is too. When the speedometer in my 1996 Accord stopped working (it would go down to zero, even at highway speeds) the odometer stopped working as well. When it would pick back up (it was off-and-on) the odometer would start rolling again.

#15 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [thegraduate] by habitat1

Jan 08, 2007 (11:00 am)

Replying to: thegraduate (Jan 08, 2007 9:18 am)
While it is true that the speedometer and odometer are often "related" as you describe (i.e. both working or both not), they are not necessarily related in their calibration.
 
In the case of my 911, the speedometer reads 5-7% too high, but the odometer is spot on, compared to an independent GPS. In the case of my former Nissan Maxima, the speedometer was about 3% high, the odometer 2%. And in the case of our MDX, the speedometer is close to spot on, whereas the odometer is 3% high. So one reading high or low doesn't necessarily mean the other one is. And, once I figured out the percentage of discrepency, it was constant. No variation due to temperature, relative humidity or stereo volume.
 
If you do a lot of driving over the same 370 mile route like I have done the last 20 years, you notice these little discrepencies, which turn out to be as much as a 12+ mile swing in odometer readings. Someone once suggested that maybe the higher reading comes from doing more "passing" rather than driving the entire route in the right hand lane. So on one particularly boring drive by myself, I went back and forth between the right and left lanes about once per mile, passing or not. It added about 0.2 miles to the trip. And nearly made me sea-sick.

#16 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by cstiles

Jan 08, 2007 (1:52 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 08, 2007 11:00 am)
Good posts, Habitat. You've certainly educated me. Perhaps there is a conspiracy, or at the very least an arrogant, casual attitude about odometer accuracy at Honda. If true, they should be taken to the woodshed with respect to their product liability.
 
Besides, if the instruments are indeed subject to being slightly inaccurate, they should be off kilter in both directions. Apparently that is not the case, which is suspect by itself.

#17 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [habitat1] by webby1

Jan 08, 2007 (2:31 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 08, 2007 6:34 am)
I agree with logic....also what about all the cars that are returned from leases and the penalties for going over the allowed km ?....who will get the monies now ???!!!!
Regards,
Webby

#18 of 73 Re: Interestingly... [webby1] by cstiles

Jan 08, 2007 (3:39 pm)

Replying to: webby1 (Jan 08, 2007 2:31 pm)
Under the class action settlement, Honda agrees to reimburse mileage fees (using a specified formula--2 or 3% if I recall) that were assessed to lessees. It's not a huge amount of money, but some people can get that refunded.
 
Same thing applies to people who had to pay for out-of-warranty repairs that were just outside the 36,000 mile ceiling. I threw away the paperwork, but it's all specified in the fine print.

#19 of 73 If you go back into both the... by fibber2

Jan 19, 2007 (8:06 pm)

Ody 99-2004, and the Ody 99-04 Problems & Solutions thread a few years, you will find that quite a number of us discussed the issue. I reported mine as being off by several %, picking up three to four tenths of a mile on any given 10 mile stretch of interstate. That says my van has probably close to 2500 miles less on it than the indicated 72k. To me this has had nominal economic impact, but to others it could be significant.
 
Steve

#20 of 73 Re: My 2006 Accord Odometer - [thegraduate] by newcivicman

Jan 20, 2007 (2:50 pm)

Replying to: thegraduate (Jan 07, 2007 9:39 pm)
I just drove a 20 mile distance in my 2006 Civic LX and checked the odometer against my Magellan 3050 GPS and they matched exactly. 20 miles odometer reading on the civic and 20 miles traveled on the GPS.

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