Last post on Oct 03, 2013 at 4:18 AM
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Pontiac Aztek, Auto Repair, Electrical, Transmission, SUV
#228 of 6762 electrical problems AGAIN!!!!
Jun 11, 2008 (9:56 am)
I have a 2005 pontiac Aztek. 1 year and 3 months ago I took it to the dealer because the transmission was slipping the interior dash lights quit working and the radio lights were dadiung in and out. I told them that something electrical was going on. They rebuilt my transmission (I had 58,000 miles on it) replaced the instrument cluster and the radio, saying it was because of an internall error. I am now having the same problems along with the air only blowing hot air. Went to the dearler. They said because I am out of warranty and bacause it has been 1 year and three months that it would not be covered and it would cost me around $400 for them to pull the dash out and see what the problem is. I do not know what to do. I feel like the problems I am having are the same as before and that the dealer or GM should be held responsible. Please help me figure out what to do. I am at a total loss. Anyone who can help please email me at melbumpus03aol.com. I would greatly appreciate any input.
#229 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [ronman811]
Jun 13, 2008 (7:47 am)
It's been over a week since my post on June 4th. During this time I've spent a good amount of time working with the wiring diagrams I was able to download from my library's Automotive Repair Reference Center (ARRC). The most helpful were the Power Distribution diagrams which were split up into 4 pages. It took me a while to understand them as there were connections between each of the pages and it was not overly easy to see where they went. Also, on these wiring diagrams, the fuses in the center console fuse block were not identified by number and the names did not always line up with the information in our owner's manual.......I had to write this all in on the wiring diagram.
Thanks to JPM1145's information packet, I was able to get the original BCM out of the car with relative ease so I could get an understanding of how I was going to attack the task of measuring the voltages in and out of the BCM. As mentioned in my 6/4 post, I was doing this to satisfy myself that I had a bad BCM and not some other problem (wiring, a different module, etc). After seeing all the wires in the 3 connectors on the end of the BCM and the two large connectors (one light gray, the other black) on the back of the center console fuse panel, I could see I was in for a sizable task. After thinking more, I decided to simplify the task by only measuring the incoming voltages for components that were not working that were BCM related (see the Motorola BCM article at link title - mediawurks.com/images/issues/cnt_mo/TLcme.html#story6).
To do this, I had to reinstall the original BCM and started working at the center console fuse panel. After hooking the negative lead of my voltmeter (using an alligator clip) to the passenger center door hinge, I then touched the positive lead of my voltmeter to the little tiny circles of metal at the top of each of the plastic fuses (on either side of where the amp rating is stamped) and found 12 volts (approx) at fuse 3 (power door locks), fuse 13 (liftglass and endgate), fuse 37 and 38 (both radio related), fuse 41 (instrument panel cluster, HVAC control, security LED and remote keyless entry module), fuse 42 (Pass-Key III) and fuse 43 (BCM). These were the components that were not working for me.
There was only one situation that I found 0 volts and that was for fuse 28 (power windows) which is an enclosed metal fuse which I temporarily substituted a spare 30 amp plastic fuse like all the others. I tested my theory with another metal enclosed fuse (#11) and here I had 12 volts. From the wiring diagrams, I traced fuse 28 back to RAP relay 33 in the engine compartment fuse block where I found 12 volts. For now, I am a loss as to how to explain the 0 voltage at fuse 28 of the center console fuse panel (power windows). With the one exception, this told me that power was getting from the battery to the center console fuse panel which then fed the BCM itself.
I did not have a wiring diagram that told me which of the wires at the 3 multi-wire connectors coming out of the BCM or the 2 large connectors (one light gray, one black) were for my non-working components so at this point I made the decision that it was a pretty good chance that it had to be the BCM.
Earlier this week I ordered a replacement BCM from BrightAuto.com for $169 including the shipping cost. It arrived in 2 days and is now installed. When starting the car, I was quite disappointed to see that absolutely nothing had changed. Every single item that did not work with the old BCM was still not working with the new BCM installed. There were no new problems either....at least in the short amount of time I had to observe what was going on. It was almost as though I had reinstalled the old BCM. This was not possible because I had marked "old BCM" with a marker on the old BCM label. The other possibility is that it has to be programmed before working. This is not what I understood from several posts (#129 by maraztek, #130 by likearainbow, #197 by tvplas). One or more of these mentioned that everything worked for them except the radio was still locked and the airbag warning light stayed on.
I would appreciate hearing from others that could tell me that they also saw no improvements with their new BCM installed until they got it programmed by a Pontiac dealer. I'd hate to throw away another $80 to have this done if it will not make a difference.
A question for Bill Kitt.....are you able to tell me what the diagnostic procedure is that the dealerships use?......or is this propriatary information? I had asked that in my 6/4 post but did not hear back from anyone.
Again, all responses are appreciated.
#230 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [ronman811]
Jun 13, 2008 (9:18 am)
All my problem disappeared after the BCM replacement. The only thing that did not work that I could tell was the radio, as it still showed locked. After the dealer re-programmed the radio was then operational. I'm sorry to hear that it did not solve your problems.
#231 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [ronman811]
Jun 16, 2008 (3:37 pm)
can you send me the wiring diagrams that you have I am having the same problems that you are having horsepuller-75hotmail.com
#232 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [ronman811]
Jun 16, 2008 (6:36 pm)
Update on my Aztek...It's been over a week since I had my BCM replaced and I'm happy to report no problems -- I initially had problems starting the vehicle but those have magically disappeared. The mechanic who replaced my BCM and actually towed it to the local GM dealer to have it programmed. He said that he had heard that you could break your BCM if you try to run your vehicle prior to having it programmed and he was taking no chances. He charged me around $370 for the whole repair which I thought was fair...
#233 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [broncomd]
Jun 17, 2008 (3:19 am)
I don't think running it without programming the BCM would hurt it, but the BCM does interface with one of the engine modules (PCM I believe) and there could be issues with starting or running if it isn't programmed.
#234 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [ray80]
Jun 17, 2008 (4:17 am)
You are partially correct. If you start your engine too many times between replacing the BCM and re-programing it then the BCM becomes "SECURED" and must be replaced. Its like trying to login to a computer using the wrong password and getting locked out after 3 tries. The reason, according to my mechanic, is that the BCM feeds the odometer and so you could, if you were not a reputable person, drive the car for more miles than are shown on the odometer before having the BCM re-programmed.
There may also be a maximum # of miles that the car can be driven before the BCM becomes "SECURED". I am not sure of this.
Solution is to tow the vehicle to the servicing dealer and don't turn the engine over. Make sure that the service technician is aware of this, otherwise the service dept. could cause the same problem by just moving the car around the service bay 3 or 4 times.
#235 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [puller75]
Jun 18, 2008 (6:55 am)
Sorry for the delay getting back to you with the information you requested on 6/14. Among other things, I've been busy rewiring one of my circuits (power windows) so I can use my car for an upcoming class tomorrow thru Saturday. I was hoping for no rain in the forecast so I could use my motorcycle but of the 3 days, there is the possibility of rain on 2 of them.....I find no thrill getting wet on a motorcycle. Just a little bit ago, I now have my windows working again.
If I don't solve this BCM problem, I will be rewiring several other circuits also. My priority will be: 1 - back lift gate, 2 - power door locks, 3 - A/C. Think I can live without everything else. If I can get my hands on the wiring diagram for the 2 large connectors on the back of the center console fuse panel and the 3 connectors on the BCM, I am tinkering with opening my old BCM and hardwiring everything inside the BCM.......then I would have almost everything working with possibly the exception of the radio because of the built in "theft deterrent" feature I've been reading about. The solution to that will be to replace the radio with one of the latest and greatest radios now available. I could live with that. I TOTALLY refuse to take this car in to a dealership and give them any money to fix this. I've read too many stories about huge repair bills and not always a solution. The only money they will get from me is $80 if someone can prove to me that my new BCM has to be programmed before all of my features will work.
You should have your email shortly with the requested wiring diagrams. Any Q's, let me know. If you discover anything to help solve this mystery, I hope you will share.
#236 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [ronman811]
Jun 18, 2008 (10:54 am)
I took my '01 Aztek to a GM dealer this morning to diagnose similar electrical problems. The diagnostic said there is a "Loss of communication with BCM." They quoted $338 for the part plus $350 for labor. Almost $700 to fix! I said I would call back and let them know.
Then I started Googling and found this forum along with this
tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself. The tutorial and the dealership both mention that it would need be reprogrammed after replacing.
I've already retrieved my car without them doing the work (though I had to pay $90 just for the diagnostic!). I want to give it a try myself, but my only concern would be getting it to back to the dealer (or other repair shop with the capability to reprogram). Will it start or not after replacing the BCM? If so, I'm willing to give it a try ($170 for part + a couple hours of my time < $700). Any recommendations on where to buy the part from? The dealer told me part #15235418. I see it on an Amazon webstore for $170. I see it for $162 on BrightAuto.com too. Is that a reliable place to order from? Thanks for the input.
#237 of 6762 Re: Another BCM Victim.....or Maybe Not.......... [mgw4jc]
Jun 18, 2008 (4:43 pm)
Welcome to the Bad BCM Club......hopefully the information found on this forum will help you solve your problem for the least amount of $$$ possible.
One word of warning.......hopefully you aren't afraid of a nice challenge as getting your bad BCM out out from the center console area will test your patience some but, it's definitely able to be removed in no more than an hour. I found my biggest problem with the removal was spreading the lower tab that faces the rear of the car......this one is very hard to see from the passenger side......and, the tab seems to bump up on part of the white inside part of the console housing. I had a neighbor come by to work from the drivers side......he slipped a small screwdriver between the fuse module/BCM combination and the holding bracket and once spread, was able to push the assembly toward me on the passenger side.
The link that you included in your note "tutorial about replacing the BCM yourself" did not lead me to a tutorial so I am not sure what you are looking at. If you need, I can forward you some darn good instructions that Joe (JPM1145) was kind enough to send to me. These are step by step complete with pix of critical steps in the process. It's quite possible that you already have this in your tutorial information.
To answer your question, after installing the new BCM, my car started up with no problem. As mentioned in my post (#229), everything was exactly the same as it was before replacing the BCM. All of the items that were not working previously were still not working. Like I mentioned in my post, it was as if I had put the old BCM back in instead of the new BCM. This is contrary to every post I've read here.......unless I've misunderstood which is certainly a possibility. For now, I am driving my car without getting it programmed as I am hesitant to put any more money until I get this confusion clarified. For all I know I have a different problem although I am at a loss to understand what that might be.
I ordered mine from BrightAuto.com.....came to $169 with shipping. It's an AC Delco unit.......the AC part # is 15235418. This is also the GM part #......both are shown on the box. It's covered by a 1 year warranty. Got my unit in 3 days.
Keep us up to date with your progress. One last thing, you didn't get into any detail about the problems you were experiencing.