Last post on Jan 23, 2010 at 8:59 AM
You are in the Saturn S-Series
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Saturn S-Series, Engine, Sedan
#37 of 81 Re: I keep getting code p0101 [catmando1]
Jul 07, 2008 (12:36 pm)
I changed my gasket out last thursday (July 3rd) and it took me longer because I spent a lot of time looking for my hand-me-down torque wrench which I gave up looking for after a few hours.
Most of the time I wasted 2 out of 4 hours was trying until the next day when I found out (duh) that the drain for the radiator is merely a 1/4" socket, (double duh for me!) the
power steering pump was the lone problem as removing 3 bolts did little until I noticed that there's a hard to reach bolt at the bottom of the P.S. bracket, I managed to
push the P.S. pump back far enough to give me the necessary clearance to push the intake assembly off the engine studs.
I used nitrile gloves to protect my hands and a shop rag to absorb the gas from the rail, (there was no pressure in my line, but a bit of liquid gas)
I didn't have 2 oz drain out, most likely due to having the Saturn at an incline with the front wheels on a level surface (for the jack stands stability) I used the left over gas on a shop rag to clean off the 2 mating surfaces and once I had full clearance, the gasket went on without any problems, I too hadn't drained enough coolant, so as I removed all the nuts, some coolant started dribbling out, so I opened the drain again to lower the coolant level.
Since the book (Chilton's) calls for 22 ft-lbs. on the intake nuts for the SOHC 2002 SL I felt the relative ease at removing the nuts in the middle and it was a bit harder on the edges, this is probably due to more heat concentration on the middle and less on the edges where the
flexing of the metal is different (I suppose) so I tried not to over tighten and I followed the recommendation for tightening from the center and working outward.
After all of this, I started it up and all my codes disappeared! Now I can pass the smog!
#38 of 81 Re: I keep getting code p0101 [saturnblue]
Jul 07, 2008 (12:55 pm)
I'm in NYC right now. I'll send you after I get back to MA. I did the list to show only the necessary steps to do the operation. I logged the times for each step to demonstrate how excessive is Saturn's quoted 5 hour labor. If anyone else has the list I sent (I sent out to a couple of folks in this forum, please forward to the fellow in need. Keep in mind that the Hayne's manual and references to fuel rail is for those literally REMOVING the manifold. That is not what we are doing here for gasket change. A lot of steps are not needed. Do not remove the fuel rail from the manifold. Fuel rails goes along for the ride with the intake manifold while assembled together.
Draining antifreeze from the block is necessary, with draining the radiator also good idea, but not necessary. Just the block is necessary and there will be some leakage when separating the intake manifold from the head. The P0301 is 1st cyl misfire, so you have a bad leak at the passenger end of the manifold. P0507 is fast idle and loss of idle speed by black box. The leaked air got detected triggering more fuel flow and faster idle. When idle switch is enabled and engine rpm much above 750 rpm or so, P0507 will trigger.
#39 of 81 update since the repair
Jul 07, 2008 (12:59 pm)
So it's been almost 5000 miles since I replaced the manifold gasket, and so far, not a single problem has risen. i've regularly checked around the intake manifold for any signs of leakage, besides the normal seaping from it being new, and nadda on both. I did however swap out a set of ignition coils and the module to help get a better spark since the repair, not out of necessity, but out of instinct, and had the old coils tested and as my instincts told me, the coils were degrading. I was told that is the only other problem with the Saturn SL series, and that it was a very common idea to just swap them out if they needed it or not to save in the future. Thanks again for the help guys.
#40 of 81 Re: update since the repair [darkfyre07]
Jul 07, 2008 (1:31 pm)
Your problem has been resolved by the gasket change. You can bet on that! There should be no seeping. Not sure if you meant you heard some. A good gasket is the case with most Japanese cars. Their gaskets last life of car. Ironically, only with the Saturn SL did I have to go through the labor of changing the intake manifold gasket! The other thing to look after is THE BATTERY. The OEM AC-Delco battery with side terminals is prone to LEAK. The Saturn SL uses a good inert plastic battery tray with 2 deep reservoirs to catch acid. Both got filled and started to fill up the tray. I lost all the acid above the side terminal in the first cell at the positive terminal. The acid dribbled on one hardware and dissolved it, and dribbled on the tranny oil filter. I found leak in time, but will change out tranny oil and filter. Had the tray been metal and/or not designed to catch and hold the 4-5 oz of acid that came out, I would be looking at serious damage to tranny connections, the entire solenoid panel for shifting, etc. Check your battery terminals. Top terminal are safer as they are above acid, but side terminals are below the battery acid head and will leak in time.
#41 of 81 Re: update since the repair [booboo6]
Jul 07, 2008 (3:06 pm)
luckily, the previous owner put a battery in with top terminals, and did it the day before I bought the car, thank god. The reason that I knew about the coils is from my mechanic, god rest him. He said that he had heard from enough people that Saturns built in, or maintained under warranty in Canada have bad coils, plug wires and ignition modules, and that they can be expensive, but that a quick $25 swap from a wrecker will fix most problems, so long as you pick one up from a 97-99 Saturn (canadian cars sometimes are very cheaply made and most often break down faster then their American built versions), mine being built mostly in Tennessee, but the electronics were swapped out in Oshawa Ontario during some dealer maintenance when the car was under warranty, using parts from the GM plant warehouse.
#42 of 81 Re: update since the repair [darkfyre07]
Jul 07, 2008 (3:28 pm)
Well, to update since my repair (last Sunday)....I was very pleased with how smoothly it was running again, not the constant putt-putt out the exhaust that I was hearing before. I also cleaned out the gas tank vent filter (not sure if there is a name for it)--driving 8-10 miles of chalky dirt road each day had caused it to totally cake up with dirt and prevent the vent from working properly.
The car ran two days without a code showing up and I thought all was well. Well, I took it on a road trip (>400miles) and a code showed up along the way. Autozone read the code as 0410--secondary intake system malfunction.
The other thing I'm having problems with now, is that it seems to have a significant loss of power--particularly when climing even the slightest of hills. At highway speed, I might lose 10 mph as the cruise tries to keep up. I also noticed significantly poorer gas mileage that what I've been getting for a long time. I was reading about 31-32 mpg, and usually it's 36-38. So, I'm assuming that I still have a significant issue--maybe O2 sensor, maybe just plugs/wires, or maybe bad compression from the leaking intake gasket that I negleted for a LONG time.
Anyway....I'll give it the plugs and wires when I return home and see how it goes.
#43 of 81 Re: update since the repair [darkfyre07]
Jul 07, 2008 (3:29 pm)
OK on the coils. I'll look into them. The other thing to prepare for based on my service log is P0442. Saturn's OEM gas cap for whatever reason, appears not to be impervious to gasoline. After just 5 years, the thick gasket looked like all littered with bicycle wheel spokes... that is, radial cracks all around the seal. The gasket rubber also became pretty hard. Both conditions contributed to failure to seal the filler neck. This is detected at P0442 within 30 seconds of starting the car when tank pressure change is measured over time based on how full gas tank is to determine P0442 trigger. It is possible that the enthanol additive to most gasoline was responsible to deterioration of the gas cap seal. Replacement was general quality replacement (does not have lanyard as with original cap): $12.
#44 of 81 Re: update since the repair [darkfyre07]
Jul 11, 2008 (8:21 pm)
I've got a couple hundred miles already and no problems with that pesky 507/301 problem thus far since I changed out the intake gasket on July 3rd.
I'm at over 108K miles on my 02 SL and today while at a drive-thru, I was fortunate to notice that my engine temp which normally rides a hair above 1/4 gauge was not only heading towards 3/4, but my A/C wasn't working, so I figured
that the cooling fan probably bit the dust, so I had to alternate between running the car when I could move and turning it off when I was sitting idle behind stalled traffic.
The book says check thermostat, but I knew if that was the problem, I would not have been able to cool down the coolant temp by forcing air through the radiator by driving.
As I drove faster, the temp did go down and it went down to it's normal (fan working) temperature, I managed to get home
tested the dead fan after checking the relays and lone 30amp
fuse and it all led back to the dead fan motor reading around 114Kohms, like an open or blown fuse, fan diode is fine with 2.2Kohms in one direction and infinity reversed.
Taking the fan out was rather fast, the price for a replacement is as follows, Napa wanted $130 for an entire replacement assembly, Saturn was charging $104 for the fan motor and then I remembered a nice parts place that sold good parts for a reasonable price, (Parts +) and they had a couple in stock for under $35 including tax, what a bargain!
Installing it was easier than removing it and the A/C was restored and putting out really cool air again, oh and the engine was restored to non-overheated status, a minor side benefit.
#45 of 81 Re: update since the repair [saturnblue]
Jul 11, 2008 (9:10 pm)
Unfortunately for SL, the A/C option does not have a separate fan along side "radiator" fan as in other cars, so when the only fan that doubles as A/C condenser fan fails, you get no backup of a second fan. Only point to note is that if you could stand the heat, just roll down the car windows, turn on the heat and you'll quickly control the temperature of the coolant using inside fan speed! As you have A/C, it would be necessary to remove the connector that runs the A/C compressor if you want to give yourself a break and operate heater in defroster mode. If done right, the heat coming out of base of windshield (defroster mode) pretty much goes over your head and out the windows. The SL energizes the A/C compressor when doing the defroster modes.
#46 of 81 Re: update since the repair [catmando1]
Oct 23, 2008 (2:19 pm)
I have a 2001 SL2 saturn that is pulling the same 410 code you had, when the light is on the car also runs rough and drinks gas like yours did. What did you ever find out to resolve that issue? Mine also says secondary air injection