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What is this discussion about?
May 01, 2009 (6:06 am)
I don't remember the exact year they went to an absolute system, but it was at least 3 or 4 years ago maybe more. I could thumb through some old issues I guess.
Yes a car can now get mostly all red (some would have to be half red I would think) dots and still get a black circle for overall. This is because a new car is supposed to get almost all solid red. Just a few half red marks will bring the reliability down and result in an overall rating of below average.
I should clarify my earlier post as well. The overall score is still compared to other cars of the same year, just the individual parts are on an absolute scale. This is why a new car with mostly red can still get black for overall.
So if a 1 year old car has a half red mark for transmission it could be a well below average if most other cars have solid red (which is the case). Even though one would intuitively think that a half red circle is good.
May 01, 2009 (6:55 am)
The newer models--GMC Acadia,Saturn Outlook-- these have all red full/half dots but at the end the overall reliab. is much below average.
I was sure that CR changed their absolute rating system 3 or 4 years before.
So is it better now to check the individual car`s whole rating instead of just the final verdict??B`cos if the difference between a half and a full red dot finally at the end gives it a black dot,then it is a minor difference.Am I correct in assuming that?
CR has been pretty darn accurate on every single car I have owned.U could see the ratings and almost predict it.It was like a science.
But,,CR for some reason seems to give a free pass to Honda,,especially with the tranny problems,,not for Toyota or other brands.
If there is 1/5th chance of tranny failure,,even if other parts are good ,,I dont think it should be recommended.
#653 of 680 Re: - [deltheking]
May 01, 2009 (2:10 pm)
Your original statement led me to believe you were talking about all solid red dots equating to an overall black dot ranking. Yes, a new car with half-red dots could below average overall because most new cars today have very few problems in their first year.
May 01, 2009 (2:59 pm)
Since u asked,I checked Cr again.
Some CR models like GMC Acadia,Saturn Outlook get final black dots even though they do not have any black ones in the ratings.
Kia optima,Ford Edge ,Ford Escape,Nissan altima etc-- all these have 1 or more black half/full dots in the ratings --but the final verdict is a half red dot.
How can this work both ways?Am I missing something here?
#655 of 680 2004 Nissan Quest was CR recommended
May 01, 2009 (3:06 pm)
Another example--when 04 Quest came out,it was a CR recommended model.
But it actually is the worst minivan out there and the worst Nissan model and now CR lists it as used car to avoid...
So is it why Cr has stopped recommending new cars..I amnot totally sure,,but CR still recommends new redesigned cars..
Your opinion ?Thanks
#656 of 680 Re: - [deltheking]
May 01, 2009 (7:10 pm)
Yes, there's more to this than dots. There's the numbers behind the dots. Also, some problems are weighted more heavily than others. Also, the dots are not the same in your examples. E.g. the Acadia has one "blank" dot, while the Edge has none of those. Also, you have to compare cars from the same model years, because the older a car gets, the more of a dropoff there is in reliability. So a newer car is expected by CR's rating scheme to be more reliable than an older car.
May 01, 2009 (8:27 pm)
So,say a 2007 car now in the 2009 CR survey has a red dot,,but then more problems emerge,,then in the 2010 survey ,,will the 2007 model now show a black dot as new data emerges or does it remain a red dot for the rest of it`s life.
Sure CR is slightly complicated but in my experience very accurate.
#658 of 680 Re: - [backy]
May 02, 2009 (6:09 am)
Between your replies to deltaking and his to yours, I am now so totally confused as to the red full, red half and black dots...I have finally decided to no longer look at the dots and from now on just read reviews and take it from said reviews.
May 02, 2009 (6:32 am)
In reading the attempts to explain how CR uses the actual data from its unscientific survey to determine dots and reliability, I can only comment what most have learned from a science and math background: the Law of Parsimony. When it takes this much in and outing of different alleged factors to explain how CR is manipulating their dot system and how the dot system has changed through the years, it's not the real answer.
CR has manipulated the supposed data to fit their own opinions and uses that to set the dots. One only needs to read their evaluations of cars they like and one's they don't like in their comparison testing from an analytical POV to determine that's what's happening. The writing style used to minimize or maximize importance of problems noted in cars also explains their dot system is subjective.