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Smart Shopper Comments: Consumer Reports/JD Power Rankings
674 messages, Last post on Sep 13, 2009 at 2:37 PM
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Replying to: longo2 (Apr 30, 2009 8:03 am)
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Replying to: 210delray (Apr 30, 2009 8:06 am) |
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While the transmission problem Honda had was real, and serious it did not effect every car. Most people did not have a problem. Look at the Chrysler transmission, now those were terrible and got a black dot as quite a large percentage failed. CR used to compare how a car did against other cars of the same year, and that was probably a better system. Now the reliability is on an absolute scale. The absolute scale may give a better idea of problem areas, but it is hard to tell reliability. To illustrate (making up numbers as I don't have any in front of me) - by the new method if a car is above a certain failure rate it gets a red circle no matter what the year. The tendency is for less red to show up as the car ages and the parts get less reliable. This helps to illustrate that cars are less reliable as they age. With the old method, a car was compared to its peers. So it would get a red circle even if it failed a fair amount as long as there were other cars that failed more. Or a car that only fails 5% of the time would still get a black mark if the other cars only fail 2% of the time With the new method a car that is two years old might get a red circle as it has a relatively low failure rate, but it could still be below average and would have a black circle by the old method. This is why problems don't stick out as early on the CR tests as they used to. The way to find problem areas now is to compare to other cars of the same year. Basically any new car that does not have a full Red circle is a poor bet. Honda does/did not have a full red circle for transmissions, and should have been suspect if the charts were read properly. Understanding how data is gathered is very important and they (CR) explain it every year in the auto issue.
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Replying to: dudleyr (Apr 30, 2009 12:48 pm) Thanks |
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Replying to: dudleyr (Apr 30, 2009 12:48 pm) Also for a new car--it has all red dots in reliability stats--but at the end it gets a black dot--saying much worse than average. So does it mean -the car is reliable enough,,but still below average compared to other cars? Thanks
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Replying to: deltheking (Apr 30, 2009 3:45 pm) I have never seen CR give a car all red dots, but a black dot for overall reliability. Can you give us a specific example or two of where they have done that?
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I don't remember the exact year they went to an absolute system, but it was at least 3 or 4 years ago maybe more. I could thumb through some old issues I guess. Yes a car can now get mostly all red (some would have to be half red I would think) dots and still get a black circle for overall. This is because a new car is supposed to get almost all solid red. Just a few half red marks will bring the reliability down and result in an overall rating of below average. I should clarify my earlier post as well. The overall score is still compared to other cars of the same year, just the individual parts are on an absolute scale. This is why a new car with mostly red can still get black for overall. So if a 1 year old car has a half red mark for transmission it could be a well below average if most other cars have solid red (which is the case). Even though one would intuitively think that a half red circle is good. |
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Replying to: backy (Apr 30, 2009 7:33 pm) I was sure that CR changed their absolute rating system 3 or 4 years before. So is it better now to check the individual car`s whole rating instead of just the final verdict??B`cos if the difference between a half and a full red dot finally at the end gives it a black dot,then it is a minor difference.Am I correct in assuming that? CR has been pretty darn accurate on every single car I have owned.U could see the ratings and almost predict it.It was like a science. But,,CR for some reason seems to give a free pass to Honda,,especially with the tranny problems,,not for Toyota or other brands. If there is 1/5th chance of tranny failure,,even if other parts are good ,,I dont think it should be recommended.
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Replying to: deltheking (May 01, 2009 5:55 am)
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Replying to: backy (May 01, 2009 1:10 pm) Some CR models like GMC Acadia,Saturn Outlook get final black dots even though they do not have any black ones in the ratings. Kia optima,Ford Edge ,Ford Escape,Nissan altima etc-- all these have 1 or more black half/full dots in the ratings --but the final verdict is a half red dot. How can this work both ways?Am I missing something here? Thanks |
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