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Pickups Ford F-Series Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer??
550 messages, Last post on Nov 15, 2009 at 7:37 PM
You are in the Ford F-Series Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: 1offroader (Jan 27, 2008 11:05 am) The half-ton pickup customer is also not the same person from 40 years ago. This is the guy who used to buy full-size LTD and Caprice station wagons - those are not available any longer. He needs a back seat for the family but doesn't really care about an 8-foot bed because it won't fit in the garage. The bed is more appealing than the full-size SUV because he doesn't have to keep it clean. So now we have a selection of crew cab half-tons with beds around 5' 6" or so for these people. The commercial buyers are getting away from half-tons because the manufacturers have "consumerized" them... and a base 250/2500 is no longer a price problem. In today's market, Dodge may have a better focus on what will actually sell, compared to Toyota's number-bragging. If you need to tow 10,000 pounds, do you want a truck that will be at its limits, or are you going to make the safer smarter choice and buy a 3/4 ton that offers a healthy margin above that? kcram - Pickups Host
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 27, 2008 3:06 pm) |
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Replying to: mschmal (Jan 27, 2008 12:08 pm) Trailer Sway Control Not so fast, Mark... from the 09 Ram press kit: --- Trailer Sway Control System: Reduces trailer sway and improves handling in adverse towing conditions caused by crosswinds and traffic. Software monitors the vehicle’s movement relative to the driver’s intended path, then applies brake pressure to slow the vehicle and increases the pressure on one front wheel to counteract sway induced by the trailer --- If not at the same time, all the manufacturers will have these same features within a year. It's going to come down to design and price for most buyers. kcram - Pickups Host |
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Replying to: kcram (Jan 27, 2008 3:29 pm) Most 1/2-tons today are family vehicle substitutes—that can take on weekend chores when needed. That's why we're seeing so many 1/2-ton crew cab versions. A 1/2-ton crew cab was unheard of a decade ago. Yeah, the new Ram 1500 will probably ride and handle better than other 1/2-tons because of the coil springs. Dodge has stated it will have a payload and towing capabilities of the outgoing models. I see that as a win-win situation. Bob |
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True, crew cabs 1/2 tons are now to haul family. In LALA land, freeways are irregular concrete where several mile sections can be teeth-jarring, chest-pounding rides, followed by smooth asphalt. I've been in crew versions of each of the Big3 products (but more than 5 years back), but no improvement in ride. Perhaps coils will help. Mark, perhaps I was a little harsh on the F-150, but Serious improvements to the F-150 drivetrain are still needed. That would include more power from the 5.4L V8 and a 6 spd automatic. I drove the 5.4L and it sure didn't feel like 300 HP; it was slow. I drove a 4.6L to the CA high desert, and it felt reasonably quick. It turned into a high speed run to get it back to the rental place (85 MPH for 60 miles). Handled with confidence. The F-150 drove much better than the '07 Tundra, & similar to my '00 Tundra (not a Real truck). It can be had with waaaay nicer interior than the '07 Tundra. BUT, I do not want another under-powered truck (did I forget to mention that the '00 Tundra doesn't breathe and power is really lacking). 350 HP and 6 spd is what I want, and I think that's what a lot of people want. A car-savy buddy bought a new Sequoia (no, not an oxymoron). He "ooo's & ahhhs" about the 375 HP and 6 spd. IMHO, Ford needed these things badly to compete. Failing this could really hurt upcoming sales. Hope they can survive this decision. |
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I don't know much about pickup trucks particularly but here's how I imagine the conversation went at the Dodge head office: [management] So... what are we going to do with the Ram? We keep getting ranked last in magazine articles and it ain't gettin' any younger! [accounting] Well if we spend as much on a redesign as Ford and GM, but only sell half the units, we'll just continue to fall behind in profits. [marketing] We need to pull a play out of our history books and make a bold statement. I say we swing for the fences! If we win big the company will be saved. (If not I've got a cousin at Toyota - hehehe.) [consumer research] The new trend these days is recreational trucks. Nobody actually does hauling anymore. If we make it more comfortable maybe we can pull in more new customers than we lose old ones? You know, like the Ridgeline... [engineering] Let's put coil springs on the back. It won't cost any more and its on the bottom of the truck where most people won't notice the change. It'll improve the ride for everyone with an empty bed. [management] Something for nothing, eh? Sounds good to me. Proceed! |
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| The Avalanche and the Caddy Escalade EXT both have coil springs since their inception. Course the only SUV in GMs lineup that still has leafs are the 3/4 ton Burb and Yukon. | |
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=124521?tid=edmunds.il.ho- me.photopanel..2.*
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 29, 2008 8:00 am) |
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Horsepower is not the most important element in the volume half ton truck segment. Practicality, car like smoothness, capability, style, reliability are all more important than power or fuel economy. The biggest customer segment consists of mature baby boomers purchasing trucks for personal/family use or business/fleet use. That's why Ford and GM have the most tasteful, conservative styling in this product segment, and the biggest market shares; and Dodge/Toyota/Nissan have edgier styling for the younger customer, and are mainly competing for the first time truck owner. Anyone who pulls trailers on a regular basis knows that it is stability not horsepower that limits speed (unless you're going up a very steep hill). Ford's idea of combining the electronics of roll control, traction control and brake control to manage trailer stability is the single best feature of this new F-150, and puts them one up on the others (at least temporarily). Ford's marketing is also spot on in coming up with new premium editions. Again, because the typical half ton buyer today has more income than people expect, it's not just penniless cowboys anymore. The half ton has replaced the traditional large, rear drive Detroit sedan as the family vehicle of choice in many suburban and rural markets, hence the popularity of crew cabs. Crew cabs are also replacing large SUVs since they now offer as much comfort and luxury; more practicality and better towing. It was the 04 F150 that finally brought trucks to parity w/large sedans and SUVs in terms of comfort, luxury and driving dynamics. True, the new F150 is an evolution of the 2004 model, not a radical revolution but the 2004 redo simply moved pickup truck comfort and smoothness one level higher for the industry than before and the new pickups from GM and Toyota were playing catch up in these dimensions.Since Ford has the largest market share all it needs to do is to prevent owners from switching to GM or Toyota on their next purchase. (I have yet to meet any truck owner that switched from Ford to Dodge or Nissan). This 2009 update is enough of a move to parity w/GM/Toyota on the most important features. To get the lead, Ford will have to introduce a good half ton clean diesel engine. I doubt that many buyers, except urban commuters, will find a boosted V-6 appealing in this segment even with a fuel economy improvement. But it will be good PR. Horsepower and payload/towing numbers are more important in the 3/4 ton, 1 ton markets and here Ford has to work harder on its Super Dutys. The 6 liter diesel engine fiasco made some people switch to GM and to Dodge (more due to Dodge's Cummins diesel engine despite the rest of the truck). But where I live, which is one of the continent's number one truck markets, the Ford 250/350 still outsells GM and Dodge by a wide margin. The typical long time truck buyer is VERY conservative. They have the highest brand loyalty in the automotive industry. That's why the leaders: Ford/GM can play it much more conservative than the other 3 challengers, who have to try different things just to get noticed. The economies of scale that Ford has w/the F150 also allow it to drive prices down along the model cycle. Don't look at MSRPs, look at actual sales and lease deals at the dealership. Ford is more aggressive in these areas than GM in the half tons, and the other 3 don't have the e.o.s. to drive prices down in the cycle. Where I live you c/d get a 07 F150 for almost $100 less on similar lease terms compared to GM, and Toyota dealers weren't even trying to compete. Ford knows that the whole industry is looking at their F150 sales numbers and this is one thing they will fight tooth and nail to preserve, with prices if need be. Too bad, Ford doesn't have its act together in cars as much as it has in trucks.
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