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Pickups Ford F-Series Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer??
551 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2009 at 9:24 PM
You are in the Ford F-Series Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: 1offroader (Jan 26, 2008 7:59 pm) To the best of my knowledge, Dodge is using rear coils only on 1500 series trucks. I expect 2500 and 3500 models, when they're introduced the following year, will continue to use rear leaf springs. As to your assertion that if rear coils were so good, that truck makers would have been using them for year. Well, my take is this: As KC mentioned, suspension technology has come a long way. Second, I have no doubt that coils can be made to "work" as well if not better than leaf springs. The problem is—and you're a perfect example of this—is convincing truck customers that it's possible. Truck buyers are notoriously conservative, and are very slow to accept new ideas. The truck makers know this. So they too have been slow to change. Taking this discussion even one step further, Ford, Nissan and now Toyota have moved to IRS on their full-size SUVs. Now that IRS has proven itself on those vehicles, it's only a matter of time before we see this being used on a 1/2-ton pickup truck; and once it proves itself on a 1/2-ton, it will show up on 3/4-ton models. That's the way progress happens—and it will happen, eventually. Remember... 50 years ago IFS was unheard of on pickups. Now they're all using IFS. The trick is coming up with new technology—and being able to "time it" with customer acceptance. Automotive history is littered with marketing failures—not because the ideas were bad, but rather because they were just too far advanced for the market at that time in history. Remember the Chrysler Airflow from the mid 1930s? A great idea, but an utter marketing failure because car buyers just weren't ready for aerodynamic styling 75 years ago. Bob
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 26, 2008 8:15 pm) What exactly is this "new technology" you refer to as it relates to rear coil springs? The technology is quite old. It has been tried. It works fine on lighter duty applications, less well on heavier duty applications. To look at the extremes, show me a Kenworth or a Peterbuilt with rear coils. Ain't happenin'. I love new technology, I am no Luddite. But, more importanly, I like what works. You say you have "no doubt" that rear coils can be made to work as well or better than rear leafs. What do you base your assertion on? Facts, or opinion? A long history of owning a heavy duty truck with rear coils? No, the real problem is me and others like me, just not open minded enough to get with the program. Maybe you're right - I don't like being the guinea pig who needs to be "convinced" to try what hasn't been successfully done. I'll hang back and wait for others to test it out, then if it works, I'll buy. If not, I get the last laugh. Full size SUVs use IRS because sales and marketing show that buyers of these vehicles prize ride comfort over hauling and towing. SUVs are the new minivan. Minivans are 'out', SUVs are 'in'. Minivans are for fuddy-duddies, but SUVers want that comfy ride, too. Rear coils allow the rear axle to move farther back without increasing the overall length of the vehicle. A longer wheelbase and rear coils means a better ride. I have a Trooper with IRS/rear coils. It's a fine vehicle for what it is but it won't do what my Silverado will do, in terms of work, and I don't expect it to. I'll go way out on a limb here. Rear coils in full size 1/2 ton trucks will not catch on. The next iteration of the Ram will go back to rear leaf springs, and they will claim it as a big improvement over the 'older' model. Dodge will rediscover the amazing new technology of rear leaf springs for heavy duty truck applications! 1offroader
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Replying to: 1offroader (Jan 26, 2008 9:57 pm) |
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Replying to: 1offroader (Jan 26, 2008 9:57 pm) Check out the Oshkosh truck links I provided earlier. Those trucks are as heavy duty as an Peterbuilt or Kenworth out there—and they use coils and fully independent suspensions. As to Dodge reverting back to leaf springs, I'll take that bet. In fact I bet that coil springs on the Ram is just the first of many such applications on full-size pickups. I will also bet that the new coil spring Ram 1500 will be fully competitive with leaf spring 1/2-tons. Note: I didn't say it would be the best—but fully competitive. No I don't expect you to be a guinea pig, as you're a classic, old-school truck buyer. Newer and younger (folks who are more open and accepting of new ideas) will eventually replace folks such as yourself. Whatever happened to Caddy Fleetwood buyers? Their equally wealthy children are now buying CTSs, etc. Time marches on... Let's revisit this conversation in 10 years and see who's right.  Bob
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 27, 2008 7:39 am) Folks that work them farms and such, be using them coils in tractors and such for 100 years now! And how bout them trains? Yep... coils in them ones too! This aint no trick photo... them coils is used big and small now...  Learn up on them coils here now... Good luck on this one now! |
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Replying to: farmerrube (Jan 27, 2008 8:02 am) Bob
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 27, 2008 8:06 am) |
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Mr. Rube...True enough about Big3 being tougher than Tundra. I own a 1st gen. Tundra that is a total city truck; never worked an honest day in its life. Reliable as it gets, as was my 394K '85 SR5. But, I looked at the video of the 2007 Tundra crashing and smashing around on a washboard. Disgraceful. The Ford was well-controlled, as was the GM truck. Boxed frame or not, you can make either stiff AND strong. C'mon, Toyota. Now, combine what you saw in the video, the 2009 F-150 highlights, and Toyota's history. Toyota will fix all these flaws with time (but probably faster than Big3 would). The F-150 updates are merely cosmetic, with the exception of new trailer package. Finally, Toyota's history teaches us they ruthlessly pursue their target and don't let up until they capture it. If they want the "working" truck market AND Big3 sits on their laurels, Tundra will beat them all. Someday. Ford, you are screwing up by not investing heavily in product. Make Toyota chase you instead of fearing what's in your rearview mirror. Toyota will catch you and crush you (and your Number 1 product) it you don't. As for Big3, they are still better as Real trucks than the Tundra, for now. I drove the 2008 Tundra and Sierra Denali. The Tundra drove like hell. The GMC Sierra was far superior. I will buy the GMC, after previously buying a total of 4 Toyota's. The Tundra is far from sorted out, and uses crappy materials inside. |
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Replying to: farmerrube (Jan 27, 2008 8:02 am) Bob says that the Ram will be competitive, but not class leading. I totally agree, Bob. The Ram is already not class leading, it's in 3rd. It will soon be in 4th IMO. But in this business, if you aren't out in front you are losing sales. Like the old saying goes, "If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes." If Dodge doesn't do something soon, instead of looking at the rumps of just GM and Ford, it will also be looking at the Tundra's rump. Not a good long-term view, IMO. I'd like to see Dodge open a big ol' can of whupass in the full size market, but apparently they folded and instead took the easy route. Ram is clearly going for the lighter duty, softer riding market. What will be the impact on sales of that change in strategy? How about addressing that original point? Isn't this the thread to discuss sales leaders? Am I missing something? Here's what I want in my next 1/2 ton 4x4 truck: small v-8 diesel w/250 hp, 400 ft lbs., and 25+ mpg hiway really nice interior, comfy seats, like the GMs currently have robust, proven drive train parts auto rear locker, front air locker optional factory offroad pkg. incl. a mild lift (2"-3"), larger wheels and tires Build that truck and I, and a bunch of guys, would stand in line to buy it. 1offroader |
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Class exclusive features galore and you call it cosmetic? The new 2009 Ford F-150’s “smart” features turn the half-ton pickup truck into an even more skillful tool. Industry-exclusive features: SIRIUS Travel Link™ for real-time data on traffic, weather, fuel prices and more Tailgate Step makes access to the bed easier Integrated Box Side Step makes accessing the front of the box easier Easy Fuel™ capless fuel filler system Ford SYNC™ in-car communications system that allows hands-free operation of MP3 and cell phones Class-exclusive features: Trailer Sway Control Integrated Trailer Brake Controller Power running boards Sony premium audio system Most comprehensive safety package on any full-size pickup, including standard AdvanceTrac with Roll Stability Control, standard side curtain air bags, Ford’s Personal Safety System, and a hydro-formed high-strength steel body structure that improves roof strength. 6-inch stretch to SuperCrew features a fully-flat load floor Stowable bed extender Strongest cargo management system The wheel is not reinvented but there is enough new stuff there that I think people will be trading in old ones sooner than they planed. Mark
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