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Pickups Ford F-Series Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer??
550 messages, Last post on Nov 15, 2009 at 7:37 PM
You are in the Ford F-Series Forum. Your Host is kcram
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So if you saw the info on the new Ram, you will see that the dropped the leaf springs in the rear and went with coil springs. According to Rick Titus, Driver's Talk Radio, this will kill the trucks cargo and trailer towing. In addition, I know coil springs are much less able to take a beating compared to leaf springs. Ever have the springs in your car break? Anyone have insight into this? What was Dodge thinking? Or is Dodge only trying to cater to the people who "use their truck like a car"? Mark.
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Replying to: mschmal (Jan 25, 2008 10:49 am) BTW, you're flat out wrong about leaf vs coil springs. Oshkosh, the maker of huge severe-duty trucks for the military and airport service makes trucks, not only with coil springs all around, but also IFS/IRS and AWD. It's just a matter of time before this technology trickles down to consumer vehicles, and at realistic prices. http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~wtanker~home.cfm http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~lvsr~home.cfm http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/airportmunicipal/products~striker~home.cfm Bob
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| Yep, that new dodge will work them fields, cuz them big3 ones is just built that way from the get go. But them forien ones got that feather thin frame and them t100 pumpkins... them pumpkins pop and that frame twists quick if worked any now. Folks is quick too work that tundra on that hi-way now, but where is them folks that is workin them forien ones in them fields? We need them big3 ones with haul, not them shiny forien ones that bust when worked any. Facts is facts on this one. Good luck on this one now! | |
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 26, 2008 6:49 am) Sorry to disagree with you. I do agree that coils can be made to be very heavy duty, but doing so destroys the reason they would be used on a 1/2-ton, which is ride quality. Coils also require panhard bars and trailing arms to keep the rear diff from moving sideways and front-to-back. Leafs are bolted directly from the diff to frame and don't need all that extra junk. Also, panhard bars and trailing arms travel in an arc, which means overall generally less travel than leaf springs in the same application. Trucks are supposed to have a lot of travel, due to the varying loads they are required to carry and extreme road conditions they encounter. Dodge is using coils due to improved ride quality, so you can bet they aren't extreme heavy duty springs. They also don't expect the truck to carry heavy loads, needing a lot of rear travel. For many people, esp. those who value a softer ride and who use the truck bed to carry light loads on occasion, the coils will be fine. But for those who use their trucks as trucks, they will move away from Dodge. Dodge is making a big bet on a change in their demographic. If they're right, they'll gain a few sales. If not, they'll become a distant 4th in sales, behind Tundra. There is a lot at stake for Dodge. 1offroader
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Replying to: 1offroader (Jan 26, 2008 2:57 pm) The Ram's rear suspension is a beefed version of the design used in the current Grand Cherokee - and no one seems to be complaining about the GC's abilities off-road in terms of travel or articulation. kcram - Pickups Host
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Replying to: kcram (Jan 26, 2008 3:59 pm) |
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| Pretty bold remark. I don't remember edmunds being tied to a manufacturer. | |
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Replying to: kcram (Jan 26, 2008 3:59 pm) Can you show the readers anywhere in the post that I said "...Ram's rear coils won't work"? Of course they will "work". What I said is that they are not the best rear spring for what a truck is supposed to do. Rear coils aren't some sort of magic technology. Dodge did not invent something great and new. What sort of "new technology" are you referring to, exactly? As you said yourself, GM had them 40 years ago. If they were superior, truck makers would have been using them all along. They use rear leafs because that is the rear spring design that has been shown to be superior, time after time, for the full range of hauling/towing/working/pulling that truck owners do. Rear coils are used in cars with a live rear axle. Rear coils are used in SUVs where the short rearend overhang will not allow a leaf spring to be used, and because SUVs are not designed to haul or tow heavy loads. Rear coils are used in applications where ride quality is paramount. Rear leafs are used in vehicles designed to maximize towing and hauling. Is there any serious doubt about that? You can't be serious about comparing the overall capability of a Grand Cherokee and a full size Ram pickup. That's just ridiculous. The GC is built to do a small fraction of what the Ram can do. No one's complaining because no GC owner can tow 8,000 lbs. safely, or haul 2,000 lbs. safely in the bed, and they're not stupid enough to try it in the first place. Time will tell, but I predict that current Ram owners who use their trucks for big, heavy work will look elsewhere when it comes time to buy new. They may be outnumbered by buyers who've never had a truck before, and don't use it hard. It's a BIG gamble for Dodge. 1offroader
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Replying to: 1offroader (Jan 26, 2008 7:59 pm) To the best of my knowledge, Dodge is using rear coils only on 1500 series trucks. I expect 2500 and 3500 models, when they're introduced the following year, will continue to use rear leaf springs. As to your assertion that if rear coils were so good, that truck makers would have been using them for year. Well, my take is this: As KC mentioned, suspension technology has come a long way. Second, I have no doubt that coils can be made to "work" as well if not better than leaf springs. The problem is—and you're a perfect example of this—is convincing truck customers that it's possible. Truck buyers are notoriously conservative, and are very slow to accept new ideas. The truck makers know this. So they too have been slow to change. Taking this discussion even one step further, Ford, Nissan and now Toyota have moved to IRS on their full-size SUVs. Now that IRS has proven itself on those vehicles, it's only a matter of time before we see this being used on a 1/2-ton pickup truck; and once it proves itself on a 1/2-ton, it will show up on 3/4-ton models. That's the way progress happens—and it will happen, eventually. Remember... 50 years ago IFS was unheard of on pickups. Now they're all using IFS. The trick is coming up with new technology—and being able to "time it" with customer acceptance. Automotive history is littered with marketing failures—not because the ideas were bad, but rather because they were just too far advanced for the market at that time in history. Remember the Chrysler Airflow from the mid 1930s? A great idea, but an utter marketing failure because car buyers just weren't ready for aerodynamic styling 75 years ago. Bob
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Replying to: rsholland (Jan 26, 2008 8:15 pm) What exactly is this "new technology" you refer to as it relates to rear coil springs? The technology is quite old. It has been tried. It works fine on lighter duty applications, less well on heavier duty applications. To look at the extremes, show me a Kenworth or a Peterbuilt with rear coils. Ain't happenin'. I love new technology, I am no Luddite. But, more importanly, I like what works. You say you have "no doubt" that rear coils can be made to work as well or better than rear leafs. What do you base your assertion on? Facts, or opinion? A long history of owning a heavy duty truck with rear coils? No, the real problem is me and others like me, just not open minded enough to get with the program. Maybe you're right - I don't like being the guinea pig who needs to be "convinced" to try what hasn't been successfully done. I'll hang back and wait for others to test it out, then if it works, I'll buy. If not, I get the last laugh. Full size SUVs use IRS because sales and marketing show that buyers of these vehicles prize ride comfort over hauling and towing. SUVs are the new minivan. Minivans are 'out', SUVs are 'in'. Minivans are for fuddy-duddies, but SUVers want that comfy ride, too. Rear coils allow the rear axle to move farther back without increasing the overall length of the vehicle. A longer wheelbase and rear coils means a better ride. I have a Trooper with IRS/rear coils. It's a fine vehicle for what it is but it won't do what my Silverado will do, in terms of work, and I don't expect it to. I'll go way out on a limb here. Rear coils in full size 1/2 ton trucks will not catch on. The next iteration of the Ram will go back to rear leaf springs, and they will claim it as a big improvement over the 'older' model. Dodge will rediscover the amazing new technology of rear leaf springs for heavy duty truck applications! 1offroader
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