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Pickups Ford F-Series Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer??
544 messages, Last post on Oct 12, 2009 at 1:12 PM
You are in the Ford F-Series Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: mule4 (Jan 03, 2008 8:46 am) 
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Replying to: kcram (Jan 03, 2008 1:35 pm) Ford has a huge problem. I read their financial problems are so deep they can't afford a full redesign of the F-150 so they're just "refreshening" the interior, grill, and some other minor tweaks. Long-term that's a failed strategy. The Tundra doesn't have to be as good as the rest of the pack, IMHO, because it's a Toyota. I know that sounds strange but I know a lot of people who only shop Toyota. A lot of friends kept impressing upon me the importance of buying a Toyota and nothing else. It isn't even an America vs. Japanese quality issue because only one suggested the Honda Ridgeline or the Nissan Titan. I could tell them the big differences in features/price/reliability between it and the Sierra I had discovered but it didn't impact them. It's a Toyota and, by definition, it's better than the rest. Who cares if they're recalled it twice? Who cares if the interior is sub-par? Who cares if it only has 4-star crash ratings? Who cares if the offer Toyota gave me on an '07 was over $5k greater than the offer I got on a better optioned '08 Sierra? It's gotta be inherently better. It's gotta be worth the $$$ premium. The fact is Honda is the top-rated car brand according to Consumer Reports. Toyota's actually slipping in their quality ratings. Tundras aren't yet really competing in the work truck category from what I've seen and heard. So the fact they aren't as tough (e.g., lack a fully boxed frame) as domestic full-size trucks isn't an issue yet. The casual users who are buying it for carrying DIY home projects and hauling junk to the dump don't care. It does surprise me that the Tundra doesn't offer a more sophisticated 4x4 system so these commuters can easily switch to it in snow and heavy rain but I'm sure Toyota will fix that problem in later model years. But the topic is asking if the Tundra will overtake the F-150 in sales just as Toyota dominates in other categories like minivans and cars. IMHO, they don't have a chance with the current design. To get volume it needs to become a fleet work truck. Toyota's bloated price makes that a difficult proposition. However, it does stand a chance of becoming a dominant fixture in the suburbs where affluent yuppies are more than happy to pay premiums for the 'prestige' of owning a Toyota. I've owned 2 Toyotas. Fine cars. But I paid a huge premium for them. Fine in the '80s when Detroit and Europe were pumping out unreliable junkers and the reliability choice came down pretty much to Honda vs. Toyota. Cars have generally gotten more reliable plus there are more good alternatives to Toyota (and Honda) like Hyundai. It'll be interesting to see how long Toyota can ride it's reputation. I just read a Consumer Reports' review of SUVs with 3 rows of seating. The Toyota Highlander was rated the best SUV they've ever tested. Really? If you read their review it sounds like a solid choice but hardly overwhelming. Stuff that CR used to choke on, especially when the car came from Detroit, didn't phase them like sub-par interior fit/finish/materials, the lowest crash test score of the group, so-so driving characteristics, weak child seat set-up, and cramped rear seating. The Buick Enclave that came in a clear 2nd in that group (overall, it's the 4th ranked SUV behind an Acura in 2nd and a Honda in 3rd), while hardly perfect, seemed better in all areas except some transmission shifting issues (somewhat fixed by a software upgrade) and poor gas mileage (by 3 mpg in a group of gas hogs so who cares?). Reliability wasn't an issue because both the Highlander and Enclave were new models and CR had no statistics so didn't consider it. Of course, CR has been criticized - rightly so, IMHO - in having a pro-Toyota bias. Domestic car/truck manufacturers have a long way to go in rebuilding their trashed reputations. Designing superior trucks that cost less doesn't appear to be helping them against the Tundra thus far. Over time, if they can keep producing a high-quality product maybe the 'I only buy Toyota' crowd will start to thin.
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Replying to: sknabt (Jan 05, 2008 7:36 am) Excellent post, many good points. I also know some folks who just shop Honda, or just shop Toyota. Back in the 60s & 70s you were an 'idiot' if you bought anything made in Japan - it was mostly cheasy junk. Then, the tide began to turn in the late 70s/early 80s when Japan went quality-oriented, while Detroit languished and rode its momentum into the ground. Then, thru the 90s and 00s you were an 'idiot' if you bought anything from Detroit. That tide is now turning also. Funny what competition does (Root hog, or die!) But, it takes awhile for folks to see it. Humans are basically herd animals, and it takes a while for a herd to undergo a change of thinking. That's happening now with the Tundra vs. Big3, and it is magnified when Japan shows its soft underbelly - a desire for profits over quality, same as Detroit. However, I think the Japanese corporate culture allows for a faster recognition and fixing of the problems. Toyota will fix the problems and design errors, pronto. It won't take decades. If Detroit lets up Toyota will turn the tables in their favor - again. Where I disagree with you is your comment that building better trucks doesn't help the Big3. Wrong. It helps immensely. Look at total Big3 sales vs. Tundra. Tundra is a small fraction. Subtract out the "brand snobs" who only shop Toyota (50%??), and you have about 100,000 buyers who actually looked at all the offerings and still bought the Tundra. And how many of those actually work their trucks hard? Toyota has a looooong way to go to really crack that market, but I wouldn't necessarily bet against them. 1offroader |
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| It be yuppies who buy them forien ones... then they work them ones on that hi-way ride to them office buildings and grocery stores and such. But that workin man... he buys them big3 ones, them the ones with that haul. That tundra frame and tailgate is snappin if put to work any, thats the facts on that one now! We need trucks too work that field and such, not ones that bust and rust. It's not about no trends, it's about haul. Facts is facts. Good luck on this one now! | |
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Replying to: farmerrube (Jan 05, 2008 11:18 am)
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Replying to: kcram (Jan 03, 2008 1:35 pm) |
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Replying to: h20 (Jan 05, 2008 7:23 pm)  He like pictures of dem trucks on his farm...a relic...rustin away.
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Replying to: h20 (Jan 05, 2008 7:23 pm) Good luck on this one now. |
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Replying to: cruiser69 (Jan 07, 2008 7:33 am)
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Replying to: farmerrube (Jan 07, 2008 5:43 pm) Plus a Camry does not have a frame, it has a unibody. The first generation Tundra, not t-100, had a fully boxed frame with eight crossmembers, no one else did at the time of its introduction. But again, i already said that. Toyota trucks dont sell where you live because of back water discrimination from people like you, afraid of change. I bet you still own a Zenith tv from the 70's. Thank God the good Lord invented an ignorance control method known as passing away.
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