Last post on Jan 18, 2013 at 8:53 AM
You are in the Ford F-Series
What is this discussion about?
Ford F-150, Toyota Tundra, Chevrolet Silverado 1500, Dodge Ram Pickup 1500, GMC Sierra 1500, Nissan Titan, Car Buying, Truck
#421 of 577 2009 Ford F-150?
Jan 02, 2008 (5:08 pm)
What surprise does NAIAS hold in store? What the 2009 F-150 better offer if Ford wants to stay on top.
1st are given. Things that Ford needs or they should just close.
- Stability Control standard.
- Curtain air bags standard.
- Interior upgraded to similar to Expedition only with push through controls for radio and HVAC as Focus and Escape
Now things I think Ford MUST do for the 2009 Ford F-150.
- 6 speed Auto trans.
- 3.5L V6 with 250HP and 250LBFT of Torque possibly replacing the 4.6L
- Keep the 4.6L only with the 3V head from the Mustang/Explorer for 290hp and 325 LBFT of torque.
- Enhance the 5.4L to at least 350hp/390 LBFT
- BOSS 6.2L V8 with 380hp/450 lbft of torque
- 4.4L Diesel 330 hp/ 500+ lbft of torque.
- tail gate step and bed extended from Super Duty.
IRS from Expedition
3.5L V6 twin force with 28mpg.
Hydraulic Hybrid with 60mpg city.
#422 of 577 Re: Yeah right... [andrew9]
Jan 02, 2008 (7:03 pm)
all you guys arguing about whos the better truck. Now as for payload and all that i'll tell you right now. To the average consumer anymore nobody cares anymore. Shameful fact about today's consumer is that people only care about looks; if it looks tough then it must be strong. Right now the truck that has it beat with tough looks is the Tundra, sorry to those who feel i'm and idiot but you know its the truth. Now i'm not saying the Tundra has highest payload, I'm not even saying its the strongest pickup out there. But you gotta admit, it looks like a tough truck, therefore everyone's gonna go for it for its looks not its power. So out of who i think is gonna go out on top? Unless the F-150 can step up its tough looking game, then the Tundra currently has it beat and it will continue until Ford changes the F-150's look to a more, tough and powerful look.
Tough Looks Ratings:
1) 2008 Toyota Tundra
2) 2008 Ford F-150
3) 2008 Dodge Ram 1500
4) 2008 GM Silverado/Sierra
5) 2008 Nissan Titan
6) 2008 Honda Ridgeline (as for looks, its not pretty with non tough looks like Titan, but its rediculous on how hard Honda tried, thierfore it got last on my list)
#423 of 577 Folks chasin fads and looks.. but what bout them that works them ones?
Jan 02, 2008 (7:16 pm)
We need ones with haul... like them big3 ones. We work them trucks, on that farm now. Trouble with them forien ones is they bust or rust... so they aint last long or workin hard.
We still work this 52 haulin...
We haul these trains... six to seven of them ones... nose to tail now...
Can that tundra work them fields and last long? Can that tundra haul six to seven trains, day in and out, year to year? Them big3 ones do now, thats for sure. What say too this one now? Good luck on this one now!
#424 of 577 Re: Yeah right... [kboynton1]
Jan 02, 2008 (9:05 pm)
Tough looks rating?
Looks are subjective. Some might say the Tundra is ugly. Does ugly equate to toughness? One thing Toyota is not known for is styling.
#425 of 577 Re: Folks chasin fads and looks.. but what bout them that works them ones? [farmerrube]
Jan 03, 2008 (9:46 am)
Rube the picture would have looked better if the truck would have been hooked to the trailers. There are a lot of old trucks setting in fields that are broke down.I own a new tundra that pulls a Jayco 34 ft. tt 7500# dry wt. 9500# loaded.1115# tongue wt. It pulls it good in hills & mts.I have out pulled chev. & fords in the mts.The frames that posters say are weak Don't seem to be a problem.About some posters saying the truck is ugly that don't matter to me.The new chev. p/u looks like a sway back horse.The cab sets lower than the front & the bed.Besides that we all have different views on looks.The tundra is the best truck i've owned equal to a dodge diesel i had.Some folks think the new chev. & fords are the best & are not having trouble go to their forums & look & look again in 2 or 3 years Lots of problems will be showing up by then.
#427 of 577 December and full-year sales
by kcram HOST
Jan 03, 2008 (2:35 pm)
..............Dec 07 / Dec 06 / +/- / CY 2007 / CY 2006 / +/-
F-Series / 55,069 / 70,580 / -22.0 / 690,589 / 796,039 / -13.2
Silverado / 53,560 / 52,396 / 2.2 / 618,257 / 636,069 / -2.8
Ram / 32,118 / 32,875 / -2.0 / 358,295 / 364,177 / -2.0
Sierra / 19,782 / 17,541 / 12.8 / 208,243 / 210,736 / -1.2
Tundra / 19,219 / 12,468 / 54.1 / 196,555 / 124,508 / 57.4
Titan / 4,785 / 5,575 / -14.2 / 65,746 / 72,192 / -9.2
Mark LT / 551 / 1,155 / -52.3 / 8,382 / 12,753 / -34.3
Toyota damn near made their target... give 'em credit, although it took some massive incentives to do it.
Ford took a beating this year; loss of over 100,000 units is a problem.
The 09 F150 and Ram 1500 will both debut at Detroit/NAIAS in a couple of weeks, so Toyota and GM will see if the bar was matched or raised.
kcram - Pickups Host
#428 of 577 Re: Folks chasin fads and looks.. but what bout them that works them ones? [farmerrube]
Jan 04, 2008 (8:28 am)
Its all about size and capacity. If Nissan and Toyota decide to make 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks, of course they can. By the way, hauling six to seven trains down a public highway is illegal. How the heck do you turn a corner? When we hauled fully loaded grain wagons, which are much heavier then the crop your showing on there, we could only legally tow two at a time. Plus, im sure your driving very slow, otherwise you would get far too much sway. Again, unless your driving in a straight line, i dont see how a six or seven trailer road train can turn a corner. Sorry.
#429 of 577 Re: Folks chasin fads and looks.. but what bout them that works them ones?
Jan 04, 2008 (8:18 pm)
Eyeball that front tire on that 52... notice that tire aint flat... and got that mud around it? That mud got there workin that one... it sure aint parked any now! We got us a boneyard with some ones in it now... but that 52 and a few others is still workin hard. We haul them trains field to field now... not on them twisty streets! Trouble with them forien ones is rustin and bustin. If them forien ones is lastin so long, where is all them hi-lux ones gone too? Answer that mystery now... and you will be closer too that truth on them forien ones, thats for sure. Good luck on this one now!
#430 of 577 Re: December and full-year sales [kcram]
Jan 05, 2008 (8:36 am)
kcram, good post. I've been curious of Tundra sales. I agree 100%, Toyota has been offering huge incentives to meet their 200k target. I believe they entered December at 177k units and facing month-to-month declines in sales. When I bought my Sierra there were few '07s on the lots of local dealers (I was shown 1 demo). OTOH, the local Toyota dealer I shopped a Tundra for had 26 '07s on the lot and was running display ads in the newspaper boasting $6k off the sticker. The salesman boasted he was "giving them away" and "not making a penny profit." I'm betting Toyota went ahead and produced 200k '07s, their target, despite light demand and pushed them on their dealer network with killer, give-away incentives.
Ford has a huge problem. I read their financial problems are so deep they can't afford a full redesign of the F-150 so they're just "refreshening" the interior, grill, and some other minor tweaks. Long-term that's a failed strategy.
The Tundra doesn't have to be as good as the rest of the pack, IMHO, because it's a Toyota. I know that sounds strange but I know a lot of people who only shop Toyota. A lot of friends kept impressing upon me the importance of buying a Toyota and nothing else. It isn't even an America vs. Japanese quality issue because only one suggested the Honda Ridgeline or the Nissan Titan.
I could tell them the big differences in features/price/reliability between it and the Sierra I had discovered but it didn't impact them. It's a Toyota and, by definition, it's better than the rest. Who cares if they're recalled it twice? Who cares if the interior is sub-par? Who cares if it only has 4-star crash ratings? Who cares if the offer Toyota gave me on an '07 was over $5k greater than the offer I got on a better optioned '08 Sierra? It's gotta be inherently better. It's gotta be worth the $$$ premium.
The fact is Honda is the top-rated car brand according to Consumer Reports. Toyota's actually slipping in their quality ratings.
Tundras aren't yet really competing in the work truck category from what I've seen and heard. So the fact they aren't as tough (e.g., lack a fully boxed frame) as domestic full-size trucks isn't an issue yet. The casual users who are buying it for carrying DIY home projects and hauling junk to the dump don't care. It does surprise me that the Tundra doesn't offer a more sophisticated 4x4 system so these commuters can easily switch to it in snow and heavy rain but I'm sure Toyota will fix that problem in later model years.
But the topic is asking if the Tundra will overtake the F-150 in sales just as Toyota dominates in other categories like minivans and cars. IMHO, they don't have a chance with the current design. To get volume it needs to become a fleet work truck. Toyota's bloated price makes that a difficult proposition. However, it does stand a chance of becoming a dominant fixture in the suburbs where affluent yuppies are more than happy to pay premiums for the 'prestige' of owning a Toyota.
I've owned 2 Toyotas. Fine cars. But I paid a huge premium for them. Fine in the '80s when Detroit and Europe were pumping out unreliable junkers and the reliability choice came down pretty much to Honda vs. Toyota. Cars have generally gotten more reliable plus there are more good alternatives to Toyota (and Honda) like Hyundai.
It'll be interesting to see how long Toyota can ride it's reputation. I just read a Consumer Reports' review of SUVs with 3 rows of seating. The Toyota Highlander was rated the best SUV they've ever tested. Really? If you read their review it sounds like a solid choice but hardly overwhelming. Stuff that CR used to choke on, especially when the car came from Detroit, didn't phase them like sub-par interior fit/finish/materials, the lowest crash test score of the group, so-so driving characteristics, weak child seat set-up, and cramped rear seating.
The Buick Enclave that came in a clear 2nd in that group (overall, it's the 4th ranked SUV behind an Acura in 2nd and a Honda in 3rd), while hardly perfect, seemed better in all areas except some transmission shifting issues (somewhat fixed by a software upgrade) and poor gas mileage (by 3 mpg in a group of gas hogs so who cares?).
Reliability wasn't an issue because both the Highlander and Enclave were new models and CR had no statistics so didn't consider it.
Of course, CR has been criticized - rightly so, IMHO - in having a pro-Toyota bias.
Domestic car/truck manufacturers have a long way to go in rebuilding their trashed reputations. Designing superior trucks that cost less doesn't appear to be helping them against the Tundra thus far. Over time, if they can keep producing a high-quality product maybe the 'I only buy Toyota' crowd will start to thin.