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Pickups Ford F-Series Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer??
550 messages, Last post on Nov 15, 2009 at 7:37 PM
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Replying to: 1offroader (Dec 21, 2007 8:26 am) |
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Replying to: h20 (Dec 20, 2007 8:04 pm) I'm paid by GM to post favorable reviews? That's a hoot. Get off your butt, visit the showrooms, and check out the interiors of the Sierra SLT and the Tundra Limited. If you think the Tundra's is superior to the Sierra's best get your eyes examined. Test drive them. If you can find significant differences in ride please feel free to post them here. One thing I think I forgot to mention is Sierra's 5-star crash rating and 4-star rollover rating. Tundra is 4-star crash and 3-star rollover. It's on the stickers so there's nothing to spin. The disparity of sticker prices has been pointed out in reviews so it's public knowledge. But since MSPR/invoice doesn't really mean that much in an era where it's out in the open (dealers/manufacturers have found ways to hide the profit) that isn't a big deal until you haggle. I pick up Monday a fairly well loaded '08 Sierra SLT 4x4 for just under $30k (not counting tags, title, and taxes). I do have an advantage of having about $3k in GM card incentives on top of everything else. The cheapest '07 Tundra Limited 4x4 I could find was stripped except for the TRD suspension and they wanted almost $34k for it and wouldn't budge despite the salesman boasting he sold one the day before and "didn't make a penny profit." He didn't bother showing me an '08 (they were stored somewhere behind the dealership) because they wanted a lot more for them. One professional review I read stated the sticker on the Tundra base model and high-end Limited was so much higher than the competition they weren't even trying. The mid-price Tundra was close to the GM's. The Tundra 4x4 has a lower quality rating than the Sierra 4x4. I'd go on to state the sub-par interior and mediocre crash tests indicate Toyota's a bit complacent. The Tundra's running on Toyota's sterling reputation and on an impressive power train which edges out Sierras and Silverados in track tests. But, other than bragging rights, do I care if a Tundra can do 0-60 a few ticks quicker? I'm buying the entire package. Once again, Toyota is a great company. They're determined to become king of the hill in pickups like everything else. They may get it right the next whack they take at the problem but the '07/'08 Tundra ain't it. I agree with another poster who said the competition benefits the consumer. Without Toyota, Nissan, and Honda all putting out high-quality pick-ups I'd hate to guess what sort of ho-hum pick-up GM would be producing.
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 22, 2007 7:22 am) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uH_qnCCBY0
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Replying to: b2900 (Dec 22, 2007 2:46 pm) |
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Replying to: b2900 (Dec 22, 2007 2:46 pm) People who care about safety would pick the Sierra/Silverado over the Tundra. Personally, my 2nd set of wheels is a Honda S2000 so obviously safety isn't a big concern. My Sierra won't be a work truck nor a hauler. I haven't compared the stats down the line in load and hauling for both vehicles. If one has an edge then that may sway some folks. I'm looking for more versatility than my beater trade-in SUV. I also need comfortable, highly adjustable seating. That's where the Tundra starts dropping the ball. And while cheap knobs and cheap plastics don't have any practical effect functionally, who wants to pay top dollar for a vehicle with a sub-par interior? Heck, it's why people have been fleeing domestic brands for years. You sound like my Toyota salesman. Pay more up front because the GM depreciates faster. Yet, he had me comparing an '07 Tundra to an '08 Sierra. I was already eating an extra year's worth with the Tundra because the '08s cost too darn much. But, to be frank, that's only a persuasive argument for folks who frequently trade in. I keep a vehicle 10 or more years after they're all used up. The Isuzu Trooper I'm trading in is limping so bad I'm nervous it won't make it to the dealer when I trade it in. Obviously, there's no 1 shoe fits all answer to car buying. For example, the GMC dealers in my city are far better than the Toyota dealers. But I'm sure others have the exact opposite experience. But I don't see a single solitary area where a GMC Sierra SLT isn't going toe-to-toe with a Tundra Limited. One would assume Toyota's legendary quality would make the choice easy but they've dropped the ball on this one. In a 4x4 configuration, Consumer Reports rates the Toyota lower than the GMs. I didn't compare the work truck interiors but the top-of-the-line interior of the Sierra far surpasses the lackluster Tundra Limited's. A final disadvantage is the Tundra wants the buyer to pay a premium price in most configurations. I see a lot of the new Tundras on the road. Their sales are up better than 50%. So super-sizing the Tundra is a marketing success but I feel Tundra is an example of Toyota riding their reputation. I wonder how many Tundra buyers even looked at/researched a GM, Ford, or Dodge? I bet many just assumed they're crap and paid whatever Toyota asked for. |
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 22, 2007 3:21 pm) |
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 22, 2007 3:21 pm) What is important to me is safety, 4 star Toyota to a 5 star G.M. should be considered without question However most accidents are a direct result of not being able to stop fast enough. The difference between the G.M. and the Tundra could be the difference between life and death Be either truck empty or loaded. Sknabt sincerely I am not here to kick stones. I have stated that before. I do trade my trucks every three years so resale is very crucial to me my budget and the money I do not have to put out. You have your preference and I mine. Personally I am glad this full size Tundra came out. I feel it looks tuff. It is ready for work. It has Toyota ingenuity along with Toyota quality. If my Tundra presents any major problems my feeling towards Toyota would be no different than my feelings toward the Big Three. Until then Toyota has earned my respect since 1997.
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| Heard that driveshaft is bustin on them tundra ones, but what about them pumpkins? Any folk work that tunda in them fields yet? Once that factory beefs that driveshaft, is them pumpkins next part to bust? Good luck on this one now! | |
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Replying to: b2900 (Dec 22, 2007 5:59 pm) However, someone like you who buys a Toyota then trades it in every 3 years shouldn't worry about quality. Sure, some people get lemons but it's the rare vehicle that isn't going to be pretty trouble free for 3 years. Plus, all carry warranties that long. That said, the Toyota only makes sense in a RWD configuration, at least the '07 I was looking at. The 4x4 Tundra is "worse than average" according to Consumer Reports. Maybe Toyota's 2 recalls fixed the problems. We won't know for a while. I can understand resale being important but only if the vehicles you are comparing cost roughly the same. My experience is an '08 Tundra Limited is thousands more than a comparable '08 GMC Sierra SLT (the Silverado is cheaper still). It becomes a time value of money calculation. Pay more now with money you could use or earn interest on or get more depreciated dollars (inflation) in the future. I didn't look at long-term trade-in values but I have a feeling most of the assumed Toyota payoff advantage is illusionary. I realize there's a lot of folks out there who will only buy Ford, Dodge, or Chevy trucks. I'm not brand loyal but I can understand it. Toyota's reputation is creating Toyota fans, too. I'll be the first to admit there's no prestige in owning a GMC. People assume they're crap. GM has trashed its reputation. People tell me I'm crazy all the time. While not brand loyal, the $3k GM credit makes me look there first. Frankly, I was amazed how good a job GM did with the Sierra (and the Silverado). The SLT interior blew me away. I was pretty much sold when people - the ones who said I was crazy - convinced me to look at the Tundra. I had researched the Tundra so knew of the quality problems but, because it was a 'legendary' Toyota, kept assuming it would be better built. Looking at one on the lot and test driving one convinced me otherwise. Admittedly, I didn't look at a Ford or Dodge. The GM credit was too big of an incentive. I did seriously look at the smaller Nissan Frontier (major disappointment in all areas) when I was flirting with smaller trucks. I'd be lying if, after owning Japanese going back to the early '80s, I wasn't nervous about owning a domestic brand. But for once I don't see an advantage in paying a huge premium for a Japanese brand, specifically Toyota. All full-size trucks are so good, IMHO, there's no reason to pay a huge premium for one over another. Take away the $3k credit, maybe I seriously ponder Nissan Titan or Ford F-150. Toyota, IMHO, is a poor value given the competition.
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 23, 2007 8:55 am) |
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