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Pickups Ford F-Series Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer??
551 messages, Last post on Dec 07, 2009 at 9:24 PM
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| That Dave40 had that knowin on these trucks now... What happened to that Dave40? What does that Dave40 have to tell on these new tundra ones? Good luck on this one now! | |
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One day Toyota may unseat the domestic full-size trucks in popularity. Toyota is a great company with great design and engineering talent. They have a well-deserved reputation for quality. But the '07/'08 isn't quite up to the task. First off there's a lot of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pick-up truck loyalists out there. It'll take a lot to make 'em switch. Then there's me. I've owned Japanese all my life including 2 Toyotas. When picking my first pick-up I chose a GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 over a Tundra Limited 4x4. Test driving both, there's no significant difference between the GMC 5.3 and the Toyota 5.7. The Tunrda's 6-speed automatic has a tad less noticeable shift surge if you stomp the gas but it isn't that noticeable. Maybe a stopwatch can tell the difference but off the test track and in the real world both are first class rides. The deal breaker is Tundra's sub-par interior. On an absolute scale, maybe it rises to almost average but in the price range the Limited sits in - most on the lot were well into the $40k range - its way out of it's league. 6-way driver and 4-way passenger seats don't begin to compare with Sierra's 10-way driver and passenger seats. Tundra features lots of hard plastic and some rather cheap looking knobs. This is the stuff GM used to be criticized for. The Sierra SLT's interior, by contrast, matches that of a near-luxury car. Tundra offers a few clever storage areas like pop-open eye glass holders on the ceiling but a lot of their little cubby holes are impractical. When you're looking at a vehicle over $35k you expect some extras. The Sierra's command console offers a lot of information like oil viscosity. Sierra also offers OnStar with GPS tracking, engine diagnostics, etc. Forget Tundra. One oddity. A standard feature is to have temperature and a compass display in the rear view mirror. Sierra does this. Tundra displays the compass there but oddly hides the temperature in a hard to read, dimly lit dash display. Don't buy one without running boards because they stand taller than most trucks/SUVs and are a pain in the rear (pun intended) to climb into without one. It's rumored Toyota delayed their Tundra to match the interior in the Sierra/Silverado. They didn't delay enough because this is a rare case of Toyota's interior being far inferior to the competition. Quality is the hallmark of Toyota. The Tundra has been recalled twice. For fun Google "Toyota 5.7 breaking camshafts". Compare stickers. In most configurations you'll find Tundras thousands more than a domestic truck. The sticker on my Sierra SLT was under $37,500. The cheapest extended cab 4x4 Tundra I could find on the lot was over $39k. Note, I'm comparing an '08 Sierra to an '07 Tundra. The salesman didn't bother showing me the '08s because they weren't in my price range (considering incentives). And the cheaper Tundra lacked options like parking assist the Sierra had. The Tundra is no bargain. I'm sure Toyota will eventually recover. It's not a bad truck by any means. But it's a poor value and requires some upgrades.
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 20, 2007 7:30 pm)
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Replying to: b2900 (Dec 20, 2007 2:26 am) That is interesting. My experience was exactly the opposite of yours. I am a former Toyota owner. Had a 85 4x4 pickup and a 92 4x4 pickup. The 85 was great, 92 very mediocre. Had several HORRIBLE repair experiences at the local Toyota dealer with the 92. Looked at all offerings, incl. the new Tundra, and bought the Silverado. The last Chevy I owned was a 82 Z28 Camaro and it was just OK. Nothing to scream about in quality or performance. So, my decision was based on quality decline of Toyota, as well as a fresh look at Chevy. I also looked at the Ford and Dodge. Both looked pretty damned good overall. Toyota has bit off a chunk, and it will be interesting to see how they repsond to the less than stellar start. In the olden days, Toyota would have had them for lunch by now but the Big 3 have learned that they have to compete or die. They have circled the wagons around their p/ups and have held the line nicely. But that isn't enuf for their long term survival. They now have to reclaim a big chunk of the small and midsize family cars. I see evidence of that in the new Impala. Isn't competition wonderful for the consumer! And for the record, I would absolutely consider another Toyota vehicle in the future. In fact, depending, I may take a look at the FJ in the next year or 2. It is overall a great auto company. I think we can probably agree, based on our individual experiences, that overall Silverado has improved, and the Tundra has declined in quality. The relative amount of quality improvement and decline is the issue at hand. Would you agree with that? 1offroader
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Replying to: 1offroader (Dec 21, 2007 8:26 am) |
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Replying to: h20 (Dec 20, 2007 8:04 pm) I'm paid by GM to post favorable reviews? That's a hoot. Get off your butt, visit the showrooms, and check out the interiors of the Sierra SLT and the Tundra Limited. If you think the Tundra's is superior to the Sierra's best get your eyes examined. Test drive them. If you can find significant differences in ride please feel free to post them here. One thing I think I forgot to mention is Sierra's 5-star crash rating and 4-star rollover rating. Tundra is 4-star crash and 3-star rollover. It's on the stickers so there's nothing to spin. The disparity of sticker prices has been pointed out in reviews so it's public knowledge. But since MSPR/invoice doesn't really mean that much in an era where it's out in the open (dealers/manufacturers have found ways to hide the profit) that isn't a big deal until you haggle. I pick up Monday a fairly well loaded '08 Sierra SLT 4x4 for just under $30k (not counting tags, title, and taxes). I do have an advantage of having about $3k in GM card incentives on top of everything else. The cheapest '07 Tundra Limited 4x4 I could find was stripped except for the TRD suspension and they wanted almost $34k for it and wouldn't budge despite the salesman boasting he sold one the day before and "didn't make a penny profit." He didn't bother showing me an '08 (they were stored somewhere behind the dealership) because they wanted a lot more for them. One professional review I read stated the sticker on the Tundra base model and high-end Limited was so much higher than the competition they weren't even trying. The mid-price Tundra was close to the GM's. The Tundra 4x4 has a lower quality rating than the Sierra 4x4. I'd go on to state the sub-par interior and mediocre crash tests indicate Toyota's a bit complacent. The Tundra's running on Toyota's sterling reputation and on an impressive power train which edges out Sierras and Silverados in track tests. But, other than bragging rights, do I care if a Tundra can do 0-60 a few ticks quicker? I'm buying the entire package. Once again, Toyota is a great company. They're determined to become king of the hill in pickups like everything else. They may get it right the next whack they take at the problem but the '07/'08 Tundra ain't it. I agree with another poster who said the competition benefits the consumer. Without Toyota, Nissan, and Honda all putting out high-quality pick-ups I'd hate to guess what sort of ho-hum pick-up GM would be producing.
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 22, 2007 7:22 am) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uH_qnCCBY0
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Replying to: b2900 (Dec 22, 2007 2:46 pm) |
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Replying to: b2900 (Dec 22, 2007 2:46 pm) People who care about safety would pick the Sierra/Silverado over the Tundra. Personally, my 2nd set of wheels is a Honda S2000 so obviously safety isn't a big concern. My Sierra won't be a work truck nor a hauler. I haven't compared the stats down the line in load and hauling for both vehicles. If one has an edge then that may sway some folks. I'm looking for more versatility than my beater trade-in SUV. I also need comfortable, highly adjustable seating. That's where the Tundra starts dropping the ball. And while cheap knobs and cheap plastics don't have any practical effect functionally, who wants to pay top dollar for a vehicle with a sub-par interior? Heck, it's why people have been fleeing domestic brands for years. You sound like my Toyota salesman. Pay more up front because the GM depreciates faster. Yet, he had me comparing an '07 Tundra to an '08 Sierra. I was already eating an extra year's worth with the Tundra because the '08s cost too darn much. But, to be frank, that's only a persuasive argument for folks who frequently trade in. I keep a vehicle 10 or more years after they're all used up. The Isuzu Trooper I'm trading in is limping so bad I'm nervous it won't make it to the dealer when I trade it in. Obviously, there's no 1 shoe fits all answer to car buying. For example, the GMC dealers in my city are far better than the Toyota dealers. But I'm sure others have the exact opposite experience. But I don't see a single solitary area where a GMC Sierra SLT isn't going toe-to-toe with a Tundra Limited. One would assume Toyota's legendary quality would make the choice easy but they've dropped the ball on this one. In a 4x4 configuration, Consumer Reports rates the Toyota lower than the GMs. I didn't compare the work truck interiors but the top-of-the-line interior of the Sierra far surpasses the lackluster Tundra Limited's. A final disadvantage is the Tundra wants the buyer to pay a premium price in most configurations. I see a lot of the new Tundras on the road. Their sales are up better than 50%. So super-sizing the Tundra is a marketing success but I feel Tundra is an example of Toyota riding their reputation. I wonder how many Tundra buyers even looked at/researched a GM, Ford, or Dodge? I bet many just assumed they're crap and paid whatever Toyota asked for. |
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Replying to: sknabt (Dec 22, 2007 3:21 pm) |
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