Last post on Feb 20, 2013 at 7:54 PM
You are in the Toyota Sienna
What is this discussion about?
#105 of 244 Re: Sienna might not be the only Toyo that wasn't on the list, but should be. [flxmom]
Feb 01, 2010 (5:25 pm)
Flxmom, I'm copying parts of some posts I submitted on the "Is Toyota on the mend for 2010" discussion (sorry for the length, but it might be interesting to you):
#4629 of 4738
Toyota lost a potential customer by tsu670
Jan 31, 2010 (8:45 am)
Toyota's ad in today's Minneapolis Star Tribune almost infuriated me.
They continue to call it a "sticking accelerator," implying that the driver presses down part way on the pedal and the pedal doesn't return to idle when the brake is applied.
But if you read the actual complaints on the NHTSA website (I have, and there are more Toyota models affected than just the 8 they recalled), you'll see that the problem is "sudden acceleration" where drivers complain the engine was going at one RPM, but then something mysterious happened so that it ramped up to a much higher RPM on its own. The pedal wasn't stuck from the last position the driver pressed it to; the vehicle actually bolted to a much higher speed into the sky blue yonder without any driver input.
Toyota had the highest number of sudden acceleration complaints of all makes since 2008. Ford was second.
No, I'm not an engineer, but it only took a few hours of research to be convinced that the problem is Toyota's throttle-by-wire sensors and computer controls, not sticking pedals or sliding floor mats. If Toyota says they are using shims for the accelerator pedal fix, they are fixing a mechanical problem that doesn't exist. They should be fixing an electrical/computer problem. And they should add an electrical/computer override of the throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed like other car builders.
I was really interested in Toyota's new 2011 Sienna minivan that will be soon arriving in dealer stores. Yes, I know it was not on the list of models recalled, but it should be since the Sienna, too, has complaints filed with NHTSA for sudden acceleration (yep, I checked). And the latest specs published by Toyota say nothing about a "brake override of the electronic accelerator" feature on the 2011 version.
Is Toyota on the mend for 2010? Not hardly. Not when it insults the intelligence of its customers by refusing to use the words "sudden acceleration," but instead says "sticking accelerator pedals in some of our models" which are caused first by driver error, then by incorrectly installed floor mats, and now by a faulty accelerator pedal that just needs a shim and all will be better.
IMHO, Toyota owners will remain as much at risk after this latest "fix" as they are now and were a couple of months ago after floor mats were adjusted. I fear the company will continue on a downhill spiral unless and until it does the right thing and installs an electronic override of the computerized throttle-by-wire accelerator when the brake pedal is depressed on ALL of its models that have throttle-by-wire accelerator systems.
Otherwise, if the bad publicity doesn't do the company in, the lawsuits will.
#4680 of 4736
Re: Toyota lost a potential customer [tsu670] by tsu670
Feb 01, 2010 (6:57 am)
CNNMoney reported today that "[ToyotaUSA President Jim] Lentz said he is confident that resolving this issue and the floormat entrapment problem will solve the problem for Toyota. The automaker has also said it is making "brake override" -- a system that cuts engine power to the wheels as soon as the brake pedal is pressed -- standard equipment on all of its cars.
The "brake override" software will also be added to the internal computers on some cars as they are brought in for recall repairs, a Toyota spokesman said."
Toyota announces gas pedal fix
#4691 of 4736
Re: Toyota lost (may have gained back) a potential customer [imidazol97] by tsu670
Feb 01, 2010 (9:12 am)
Thing is, should we be bashing Toyota for the sake of what we perceive as justice, or should be we bashing Toyota until the company comes around and finally does the right thing? If the CNN story is correct in its statement that Toyota will, indeed, be adding an override of the electronic throttle when the brake pedal is depressed, then maybe we should be satisfied that the company is coming around after all.
But that isn't the end of it, is it? In fact, it might be just the beginning of something much bigger.
I am the original owner of a 2008 Toyota 4Runner, a year and model that was not included in any of the accelerator recalls. I've noticed on occasion that the RPM surges by 200 to 300 for a second or two when standing at a red light. In checking the NHTSA database, I see there is a similar complaint filed (I haven't filed a complaint yet, but will). With all of the reading I've done in the past week, I'm thinking I might have one of those Toyotas that could also bolt by itself into the wild blue yonder some day. Should the owner who filed the NHTSA complaint, me and other owners of 4Runners with throttle-by-wire be entitled to the brake override fix? I think we should, but what kind of battle will we all have with Toyota to get it?
Those who have suffered damages from sudden unintended acceleration can fight their battles in court or otherwise find settlements with Toyota. For families who suffered injuries or lost loved ones because of this tragic defect, our sincerest condolences and best wishes in your quest for deserved justice.
But for the rest of us, the challenge will be to make sure the company makes the right fix, in a timely manner, and to ALL affected vehicles, not just the ones Toyota decided to include on its list; and to make said fix before we, too, are included among those families who have already experienced damages, injuries or deaths.
I'm willing to support the folks at Toyota in their effort to do just that, but will be critical of them if they don't. -end of post.
Flxmom, I understand later this month, like maybe February 25th or so, Congress will be holding hearings about this issue. I did some digging around, and it looks like the person to send your concerns to is (if someone finds out differently, please let me know):
Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI), chair of the Subcommittee of Oversight and Investigation
Pull down the "Contact" menu near the top and click "e-mail Bart". Fill in the form with your name and other information, then compose your message in the box provided. When you send your e-mail it will probably come back with something like "Since you don't live in my district I can't respond to your e-mail," but I think your message will get through to him anyway. All the best, Ken.
#106 of 244 Re: Brakes and Throttle failed at the same time? [flxmom]
Feb 01, 2010 (8:01 pm)
With all due respect - you're freaking out. Put the car in neutral - worst thing that happens is the engine revs really high, but you wont crash.
This is the standard limitation of the human brain - improper risk assessment. We freak out when we see some longshot chance of dying and assume that it will happen to us, but we underestimate common things. Did you exercise today? Did you eat a Big Mac? Did you drive ANY car around the neighborhood? Did you cross a busy street?
I'd guess there are many ways which give you a much greater chance of dying than this Toyota sudden accel thing.....ESPECIALLY if you don't freak out and just be prepared should it ever happen.
#107 of 244 Re: Brakes and Throttle failed at the same time? [hogan773]
Feb 01, 2010 (10:41 pm)
Sorry Hogan773 - It actually IS a big deal. There have been over 2000 occurrences of Toyotas suddenly accelerating, Without the fix, the answer is to (a) drop into neutral AND (b) switch off the ignition. Doing that causes the driver to lose power steering. If you are going 65-70 MPH and suddenly accelerate PAST that speed and then to regain control of your vehicle you have to lose power steering it's what I would consider NOT a safe, simple solution.
#108 of 244 Re: Brakes and Throttle failed at the same time? [sixthgear]
Feb 02, 2010 (7:39 am)
Actually, I'd skip step (b).
The rev limiter will protect the engine. Only switch off the ignition after you have left the road and parked.
Just put it in Neutral, then pull over.
#109 of 244 Re: Sienna might not be the only Toyo that wasn't on the list, but should be. [tsu670]
Feb 02, 2010 (7:41 am)
Thank You tsu670...I wonder what Toyota will do when I go to the dealer and ask for the " brake override software", they will say my van has not been recalled, but it should be since it too has had numerous rapid and uncontrolled acceleration !
Also If I put the gear into Neutral will the brakes then work? Maybe Maybe not...?
Its scary,,no other way to say it..I am on edge driving my vehicle now, every time I am in the car, and when I am on the high speed roads passing trucks and the like, its going to be very stressful, I have two kids,,!
I believe Toyota has not been forth coming and its making me very angry. I am now questioning even why this van was turned in after only 20,000 miles, they said the owner wanted a different make, but ya never know..
There was another person who had the same issues with her rav 4 and her year wasn't recalled !
#110 of 244 Re: Sienna might not be the only Toyo that wasn't on the list, but should be. [dbt]
Feb 02, 2010 (7:44 am)
So where is the proof that only vehicles with this pedal have this Acceleration issue? Is this really true or not? Does it have anything to do with the pedal and the system connected to this specific make of pedal? How to find out, since the dealers are not forth coming or just dont know them selves and Toyota is not telling the whole story or truth..
#111 of 244 Re: Brakes and Throttle failed at the same time? [hogan773]
Feb 02, 2010 (7:54 am)
I am freaking out on the inside, I will not on the outside, its normal to feel this stress and anxiety in a situation where you never know if your vehicle is going to take on a mind of its own, knowing that its brothers have quite often ,,I am ready to do the neutral thing but its scary despite it, and if this happens it could be horrible no matter if I do the neutral thing or not..this is a very bad thing
#112 of 244 Re: Sienna might not be the only Toyo that wasn't on the list, but should be. [flxmom]
Feb 02, 2010 (8:01 am)
The brake ought to work because at that point you're not fighting against the power of the engine. Also, you can slowly coast to the shoulder.
What might put your mind at ease is that Toyota is under the microscope right now, so whatever problems do exist will have to be addressed, whether they are cooperative (voluntarily) or not (NHTSA-forced recall).
#113 of 244 Re: Sienna might not be the only Toyo that wasn't on the list, but should be. [ateixeira]
Feb 02, 2010 (8:17 am)
Yes if there is a shoulder to coast to, passing a truck or vehicle on the left at a high speed and this happening is not a good scenario ,,I will do it but , in a perfect scenario its sounds easy and safe and simple, the truth is,,it could be devastating thats the truth..I wonder what my dealer will say when I go in and tell them I want my vehicle fixed with an override system even tho its not on the recall, even when I have proof there is an issue with the Sienna and its been documented...
#114 of 244 Re: Sienna might not be the only Toyo that wasn't on the list, but should be. [flxmom]
Feb 02, 2010 (8:19 am)
I have a 2004 sienna LE... this are the problems that we have since we have the van.
List of problem
1) Gas lick (flooded to ground) after replacing the fuel tank.. took them 2 weeks to fix.
2) Driver side front door has popping sound - welding problem- initially they refuse to fix until the recall got in.
3) Driver side sit belt not easily release - wants $300 to fix .. Safty issue? Not fix yet.
4) Steering wheel arm cushion broke - bad for driving and alingment- cost $700.00
5) Passenger automatic door broke - require 800+ to fix claiming motor problem. took it to a independent auto shop , fix it for $200.00. The cushion of the arm that hold the door worn off and therefore the door is scratching the side of the car.
6) It looks like that the there is a yellow residue on the radio led window.. electrical shortage?
6) the most current one... I do not know whether it is related to rain or not.
it happen 2 times last week ( before the recall), It is very hard to turn my steering wheel when I am in drive mode, have to restart the car to solve this problem. I am lucky that both incident happened in parking lots. I believe there is major issue with the electrical system. I took it to a automobile repair shop. The owner show me a list of recalls or notifications for the 2004 model ( maybe around 20 to 30) . And he said one of the notification may be related to the problem i have. My question is how come I, as the owner of the van were not notified, because the recall or notification were issued in 2004 and it clearly stated that, repair only if under the 30000, 3 years warranty if the owner complaint about it. If they knew the problem, why don't they inform the owner to check out whether their van has that problem instead of wait till some accident to happen first.
Is there any repair shop owner willing to list all the problems of the sienna.