Last post on Feb 20, 2013 at 7:54 PM
You are in the Toyota Sienna
What is this discussion about?
#235 of 244 Re: I didn't know! [imidazol97]
Jan 25, 2011 (6:23 pm)
In other words, no one knows, but it certainly is suspicious.
There simply isn't enough information available to come to a conclusion, one way or the other. There are far too many variables in play.
So, to imply UA is certainly unwarranted. To do so is simply a type of "scare tactic".
I wonder if anyone thinks that accident was UA. Also, I wonder how many would think it was UA if it had been a Toyota product .vs. a BMW.
#236 of 244 Re: I didn't know! [busiris]
Jan 26, 2011 (8:05 am)
I doubt the van could have been doing much more than the posted speed, and truckers never go the speed limit.
Even if the van was doing 100, I can't imagine there would be that much damage if the truck was doing 80. The 20mph difference is not enough to cause that much damage.
More likely the truck was stopping or slowing when the van rear ended him, inattentive driver didn't notice, perhaps?
In other words, it's more likely the truck's slow speed vs. the van's high speed. The Sienna has the aerodynamics of a barn door.
#237 of 244 Speed Differential
Jan 26, 2011 (8:23 am)
the van's dashboard was smashed completely under the rear of the semi
OK, just read the full article. That's a serious collision. Massive amounts of energy to absorb.
We know from the IIHS 40mph front offset collision, the passenger area stays intact.
So for that much damage to occur, it's safe to assume there was MUCH more than 40mph difference in speed.
Time for some detective work...
OK, from C&D's last minivan comparo, the top speed of that Sienna is 110mph. So even if the truck was doing the speed limit, and not over like they always do, the difference in speed, worst case scenario, would be:
Top Speed of 110 - Truck at Speed Limit of 70 mph = 40 mph difference.
So the crash would have been similar to the IIHS test, which is done at exactly the same speed!
So now let's look at those:
Frontal offset test results Frontal offset test results
Good 2011 models
Good 2004-10 models
Good 1998-2003 models
So SUA can be ruled out - it had to be that the truck was going MUCH, MUCH less than 70mph, else the driver would have had Good protection, and that was clearly not the case.
That pretty much proves this was NOT a case of SUA.
#238 of 244 Re: Speed Differential [ateixeira]
Jan 26, 2011 (9:54 am)
>We know from the IIHS 40mph front offset collision, the passenger area stays intact.
>So for that much damage to occur, it's safe to assume there was MUCH more than 40mph difference in speed.
Many trailers don't have very good bars that extend lower to keep cars from going under. Some of the bars I see look like welded angle iron which wouldn't stop a SmartForTwo let alone a van like Odyssey or Sienna.
I wonder if the bars that are supposed to keep cars from going under didn't absorb or resist and the back of the higher trailer ledge hit higher on the Sienna's front end. That would explain the heavy crushing into the passenger compartment.
I didn't find a picture of the vehicle.
Also the possibility that the trucker was slowing down would explain a driver on the that stretch of straight road not realizing it unless the emergency lights were flashing.
Nothing was said about the driver claiming a high speed on the van's part.
Nothing was said in the article about any witnesses of higher speeds than typical.
Doesn't look like a pattern for SUA.
Only odd thing for forensics on this with the given information is that the truck driver was upset. Perhaps he had slowed down without proper lights and felt some responsibility, but I'm just guessing on his reason for concern.
Also he didn't say the car came up on him at high speed, nor did any other truck drivers. At 9 pm that road has a good density of traffic and probably lots of truckers who would have noticed.
Nothing here in the report suggests SUA. Maybe hypnotized van driver after miles of boring mostly straight I-70.
#239 of 244 Re: Speed Differential [imidazol97]
Jan 26, 2011 (10:12 am)
Vehicle crash compatibility is crucial. Example:
URL if you cannot see the image:
In this case, though, they did mention the dash was destroyed, so a lot of energy was absorbed. Not enough, sadly.
Toyota added brake overrides to the throttle in 2010 for Siennas, and ironically it's the competition that has yet to add that feature. Nissan has on the Quest, an exception.
#240 of 244 Re: I didn't know! [eflorida]
Feb 14, 2012 (5:17 pm)
Uncontrolled acceleration rarely happens. It's usually a combination of malfuntions in various systems. If you want to see what industrial terrorism looks like using uncontrolled acceleration as the WMD, go to www.CarWarsEbook.com.
#241 of 244 Re: Speed Differential [ateixeira]
Feb 14, 2012 (7:30 pm)
Once when crossing the Golden Gate bridge going south into San Francisco on a motorcycle, it was a dark and blustery night, a bit foggy, visor wet, I perceived the two pair of stop lights in front of me were two separate vehicles with a clear lane in between where I could pass between vehicles.
Luckily, when the TRUCK crossed the grating between bridge and highway,
everything came into perspective as the two "cars" jumped several feet into the air and I realized just in time, the two "cars" were pairs of tail lights mounted on either side of the TRUCK so I cooled it, slowed down.
Truck bumped up a few INCHES where as cars it seemed like it was FEET.
so that CLUE told me to back off, something's amiss in my visual perception
Perhaps some unusual lighting initiated a similar optical illusion for driver
#242 of 244 Re: Sienna Uncontrolled Acceleration [jul333]
May 10, 2012 (9:14 am)
Nothing new.. There are a few reasons this is caused.. 1st is the most typical which happens to a LOT of older drivers.. Simply, they push the wrong pedal and accelerate into things.. Then, there is number 2. Which is usually found on older toyota's they have a left over weld that hangs off the throttle body that causes the throttle body to stick at WOT and cause the car to uncontrollably accelerate.. Luckily most older toyota's are low HP and stick, which can be easily fixed by pressing on the clutch and pulling over.. The last one. Which is an issue with the computer, the new toyota's and most other new cars are "drive by wire" which is mandated by the USDOT.. aka idiots.. the issue is not common, but what most people don't know is that all toyota's after 2007 and honda's after 2006 have a "black box" which records all actions by the driver.. so if you were not pushing the brake then the box knows, if you released the brake and the car accelerated into a wall, it will know if you depressed the accelerator.. If you did there is a specific code, if you didn't there is another code.. the box has an internal code block of ROM which does not require power to save the cause of the, or any accident.. it has an infinite amount of storage and records everything.. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING.. (Which is why the Prius Unintended acceleration charges were dropped)
Lastly, which is also common, the accelerator uses a crap code.. Which in English means that when you push the pedal the Toyota will have a 1/2 second delay before you accelerate, which can cause a lurching motion.. Bad code is the reason for this, it is also an issue in the new honda's, which in 2006 was so slow you could floor it and release the pedal before it even registered it was pushed.
#243 of 244 Re: Sienna Uncontrolled Acceleration [kitcloudkick3r]
May 10, 2012 (11:11 am)
I read this a few months back and was unaware the courts had thrown out cases based on the black box. At that time, there was questions concerning the reliability of the black box in all Toyotas. Watch to the following weblink:
#244 of 244 Re: EX in Indiana [ptaylor2112]
Feb 20, 2013 (7:54 pm)
Toyota Sienna Mini Van Spontaneous acceleration Our Minivan spontaneously accelerated. I don't know if you know Toyota has been having this issue with older models, but ours is a 2012 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited All wheel drive mini van. I put on the Brake to let my wife out when the van took off as if I had the gas pedal to the floor, yet my foot was on the brake. We kept moving, so I pushed the stop/ignition button and the van would not stop. I then put on the emergency brake and the van was still moving, I watched the RPM's keep going up on the tachometer. I then pushed the off/ignition button again, still would not stop, my next step was to put it in neutral, but I didn't want to blow the engine, so I pushed the off/ignition button again and the engine finally stopped. We were freaked out we had only read about this not thinking it would ever happen to us. Now the biggest problem is I don't feel comfortable having wife drive the van anymore. I called Toyota of Nashua, they basically said we can inspect it and call Toyota of California. I called Toyota of CA and they seemed nice and talked about giving us a loaner car. Both Toyota of Nashua, NH and Toyota of California both inspected the van and said “there is nothing wrong with the van”. They said you can come and pick it up. There are many YouTube Video showing this problem and even re-enacting the situation, yet Toyota claims user error. I have grown up working on cars for about 35 years, I fixed and driven cars hard. I’ve done things with cars that most people only see in the movies. I can promise you it was not user error and it was not the floor mats FACT!!! BEWARE Toyota & Lexus Owners