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Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News
#5809 of 6195 Re: They sweated the details!!! [nvbanker]
Nov 13, 2008 (12:03 pm)
I was thinking of my friend's 1980 Chevrolet Citation which had that stuff all over the interior - like it was fooling anybody into thinking it was real stitching.
I don't think GM interiors started getting crappy until maybe the late 1960s with the increased use of plastics. Mid-sixties Pontiacs have beautiful interiors and a clearly a step up from Chevrolets. What happened?
However, I think they've finally realized the error of their ways. I wasn't entirely happy with the interior of my 1994 DeVille. My 2002 Cadillac Seville STS had a much nicer and better quality interior, the interior of my 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance is really nice, if not quite as nice as a Lexus or Benz, and the interior of the 2009 CTS I recently drove was nicer still.
#5810 of 6195 Re: They sweated the details!!! [lemko]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Nov 13, 2008 (12:22 pm)
Interesting question. I wonder if they figured that cutting back on the parts quality of the drivetrain would kill them on warranty claims but they could cut back on interior quality because fake stitches wouldn't cause a breakdown on the road.
False economy if true - plenty of people complain about VW reliability but their interiors sell a lot of cars.
#5811 of 6195 Re: They sweated the details!!! [steve_]
Nov 13, 2008 (12:47 pm)
VWs have nice interiors but I wouldn't trust one as far as I can throw one. However, if a Cobalt had as nice an interior as a Jetta, there would be people busting down the doors to get one.
#5812 of 6195 Re: They sweated the details!!! [lemko]
Nov 13, 2008 (2:35 pm)
if a Cobalt had as nice an interior as a Jetta, there would be people busting down the doors to get one.
Man, you said a mouthful there, lemko!
#5813 of 6195 Re: They sweated the details!!! [lemko]
Nov 13, 2008 (4:51 pm)
NOW you're talking! Just make cars people crave. Simple but lost in the greed.
#5814 of 6195 Re: Quality [cooterbfd]
Nov 14, 2008 (10:04 am)
... or can't retool fast enough,
Maybe someone can hand them a document concerning the USS Yorktown (fleet aircraft carrier) repair between the Battle of Coral Sea and Midway in 1942. The ship was nearly sunk at Coral Sea with large holes in the flight decks, towed into Pearl, spent only 24 hours there - refueling, rearming, and replaced planes/crews, and joined the Midway battle 2,000 miles away several days later.
Or maybe another good read would be how the Russians in 1941-42 picked up entire factories, moved them hundreds of miles east, and had them producing shortly thereafter.
I guess in either case they didn't use union rules!
... then maybe Honda imports CV joints from a factory that supplies them for their foreign markets, and that is all it takes for that US supplier to go belly up.
Maybe. But since the owner of the parts supplier gets $0 if he closes the doors and Honda does not get its parts, the more likely business scenario is that Honda buys the parts supplier for very cheap money getting a bargain, and the former owner gets something rather than $0.
And any factories that any of the Big3 own that make good products and are profitable are unlikely to be shuttered for the same reason. If GM were to close tomorrow, plants that make things like the Vette/XLR will be bought and will restart very shortly, albeit with new management/workers/owners possible.
The computer industry went thru a huge shakeout 15-20 years ago, poorly managed companies with poor products were replaced, suppliers shifted to new manufacturers.
#5815 of 6195 Re: Quality [kernick]
Nov 14, 2008 (6:49 pm)
".....Maybe. But since the owner of the parts supplier gets $0 if he closes the doors and Honda does not get its parts, the more likely business scenario is that Honda buys the parts supplier for very cheap money getting a bargain, and the former owner gets something rather than $0. "
Either way, Honda gets no extra parts until they can be made or imported. That could shut down factories.
Remember, the American buying public went without buying new cars for 4 YEARS during WWII, so they can wait until they find what they want. However, the auto factories were full steam ahead back then. This time we are talking about layoffs rippling throughout the industry. No jobs, no money. No money, no car purchase.
#5816 of 6195 Re: Quality [cooterbfd]
Nov 15, 2008 (11:19 am)
Either way, Honda gets no extra parts until they can be made or imported.
It's rather illogical to think that the remaining car manufacturers would simply allow their supppliers to close, and that the whole U.S. manufacturing of all autos would stop. The stakes are too big for Toyota and Honda, and the remaining Big 2 not to keep the suppliers going, or to put a 100% effort into retooling the suppliers. As I gave examples, suppliers should be able to retool in days if they care about their jobs.
Remember, the American buying public went without buying new cars for 4 YEARS during WWII, so they can wait until they find what they want.
That is rather irrelevant as an argument. There was demand for autos during WWII. They would have sold cars if manufactured. There is demand for autos today - currently 12M, which will be there. There was demand for autos during the Depression. As lng as there is demand AND the manufacturers are allowed to produce autos, then there will be sales. And those sales will be 12M, as it looks right now. If GM goes under, the demand is still 12M, and as such other manufacturers are going to see their business increase some.
And given that GM has maybe 75 days inventory on lots, and these would be sold at greta discounts, there won't be a sudden wave of demand on the other manufacturers. While the remianing GM inventory is sold, is plenty of time for the suppliers to retool for Ford, Chrysler, Toyota.
Cerberus, Ford and Toyota have plenty of cash to loan to any of their suppliers to keep going. They're not going to let a little money to suppliers shut down their 12M in auto sales. Anyone who knows anything about business will tell you that's preposterous.
The only reason that story of a shutdown of suppliers and the whole economy is out there is because it's meant to scare the general public into giving them lots of money. If I could get $25B or $75B by making up an Arrmageddon-style story like that to the general public - I guess I'd be corrupted as well. Follow the money and who's putting these falsehoods out. It is the people who will benefit from the loans who are are screaming this, not most financial experts.
#5817 of 6195 Re: Quality [kernick]
Nov 16, 2008 (6:45 am)
Yes, there is demand. But the problem is that inflation and wages have fallen behind where they were in the 60s even, when you adjust for cost of living and inflation.
In short, there ARE people who want cars, but they just can't afford them. This means that you'll see cars from India, China, and elsewhere come in and undercut the current market. The cars may be hardly any better than the old Geo Metro was, but they did sell a lot of those little tins cans if you remember.
#5818 of 6195 Re: Quality [plekto]
Nov 16, 2008 (9:04 am)
Salaries have lost to inflation but let's see how prices in the market get adjusted now. The consumer will speak loudly in the next year. Deflation is a growing possibility as conditions worsen.