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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

6098 messages,  Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM

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What is this discussion about? Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News

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#5488 of 6098 Re: Bustleback Seville and a question. [carfanforever] by sls002 Sep 20, 2008 (12:53 pm)
Replying to: carfanforever (Sep 19, 2008 8:10 pm) The first generation Seville was in production for 4 year and they built 200,000. The bustleback was in production for 6 years and they built less than 200,000, but only just less. The bustleback is more distinctive, and perhaps you just noticed it more. The smallest Seville was the 86 through 91 models and production for the six years totaled less than 150,000.
#5489 of 6098 Re: [m4d_cow] by sls002 Sep 20, 2008 (12:58 pm)
Replying to: m4d_cow (Sep 19, 2008 10:06 pm) The CTS is the only Cadillac that is doing well this year. The STS and SRX have fallen off from last year, but are doing better than the DTS or Escalades.
#5490 of 6098 Thanking steve again. by carfanforever Sep 20, 2008 (1:24 pm)
Thank you for the tip, but you were right, that is not very usefull. Sigh. Replies to this message: steve_ (Sep 20, 2008 2:37 pm)
#5491 of 6098 Bustleback vs small Seville. by carfanforever Sep 20, 2008 (1:36 pm)
It was not the distinctive styling of the bustleback. The small Seville angered me because I did not like it. So if it was common, I would remember being disgusted by it often. That car really was a very rare sight. Replies to this message: sls002 (Sep 21, 2008 1:33 pm) andre1969 (Sep 21, 2008 3:53 pm)
#5492 of 6098 Re: Thanking steve again. [carfanforever] by steve_ HOST Sep 20, 2008 (2:37 pm)
Replying to: carfanforever (Sep 20, 2008 1:24 pm) Just curious, but what is it about pics in the discussion that bugs you?   It could be worse - we could have flaming animated emotorcons.
#5493 of 6098 carfanforever by m4d_cow Sep 20, 2008 (10:47 pm)
you can always just push the stop button on your browser before the pictures load up.
#5494 of 6098 Re: Bustleback vs small Seville. [carfanforever] by sls002 Sep 21, 2008 (1:33 pm)
Replying to: carfanforever (Sep 20, 2008 1:36 pm) The small Seville was the 86-91 model. I liked the body style, but the dash seemed like something you would expect to find in a low priced car. The dash in the Riveria and Toronado were also not great. I think that the 86 Seville's body style was far better than the 85 Deville's, but it did look a lot like the Pontiac Grand Am. Replies to this message: andre1969 (Sep 21, 2008 3:53 pm)
#5495 of 6098 Re: Bustleback vs small Seville. [sls002] by andre1969 Sep 21, 2008 (3:53 pm)
Replying to: sls002 (Sep 21, 2008 1:33 pm) I think that the 86 Seville's body style was far better than the 85 Deville's, but it did look a lot like the Pontiac Grand Am.   Yeah, I think in this case, if there had never been an N-body, the 1986 Seville, and the Eldo/Toro/Riv, would have been better-received. The cars are decent enough looking in their own right, but then when you look at the Grand Am, Skylark/Somerset Regal, and Calais, there's just too much similarity.   Another problem is that design work on these cars began in 1982-83, most likely, when the forecast was for gasoline to be costly and scarce. By the time they were ready for launch, the fuel was flowing freely again, and big cars were in again. In fact, once word was out about the new, smaller models that were soon to come, people were scrambling to buy the last of the bigger models. As a result, 1985 was a good year for the Eldo/Toro/Riv, and the Seville.   By this time, the market for upscale personal luxury coupes was thinning out, anyway. I'm sure it also didn't help that the Mark VII looked downright muscular compared to the downsized Eldo/Toro/Riv.
#5496 of 6098 GM's most significant Cars EVER! by circlew Sep 21, 2008 (4:16 pm)
Chosen by GM. Here is an excerpt that says it all.   Pontiac GTO (1964): Interesting to see that GM historians (and execs, by association) don't think much happened from 1964's GTO until the 1996 EV1...   Apart from the "maverick" input of certifiable goofball John Z. DeLorean, the GTO wasn't really all that significant a car in its own right (in our humble opinion). But the GTO started the '60s muscle-car thing. And should have proved to GM - though it didn't - that the company desperately needed some free-thinker types.   Still does. Drugs and booze optional.   Here is the list. I agree. Boring examples from closed-minded cost cutters is all you ever get.   GM Best EVER   Regards, OW Replies to this message: andre1969 (Sep 21, 2008 4:34 pm) jimbres (Sep 21, 2008 5:40 pm)
#5497 of 6098 Re: GM's most significant Cars EVER! [circlew] by andre1969 Sep 21, 2008 (4:34 pm)
Replying to: circlew (Sep 21, 2008 4:16 pm) Interesting to see that GM historians (and execs, by association) don't think much happened from 1964's GTO until the 1996 EV1...   Well I think the issue here is that, for the most part, GM wasn't so much of an innovator. They weren't always the first into a new market, but once they entered, they usually took over.   The GTO gets credit for being the first musclecar, but in name only, as GM coined that term. Truth be told, there were certain '62-64 Plymouth Furys and Dodge Polaras, with 413's and 426 wedges, that would send a GTO home crying.   GM tended to be strong in styling and marketing in those days, but often it was Ford that opened up new markets first. For instance, the 1958 T-bird opened up the personal luxury coupe market, but then GM jumped on it with the 1962 Grand Prix, and then the Riviera, Toronado, and Eldorado. Ford also "invented" the ponycar, with the Mustang. Once Chrysler caught wind of it, they rushed the 1964 Barracuda into production, actually beating the Mustang to the market, but the Mustang was still the overwhelming favorite. Ford also came out with intermediates before GM, with the 1962 Meteor and Fairlane. And Ford's LTD beat the Caprice to the market.   In the case of the GTO though, I think while Mopar beat them out by putting big, muscular engines in their shrunken Dodges and Plymouths for '62, the GTO is what really popularized the formula. And it was a great looking car. The Mopars, in contrast, were kinda vulgar.   There is one other GM car between the GTO and the EV-1 that I'd consider significant, though. The entire 1977 full-size lineup. Ever since practically, the dawn of time, cars had been getting bigger and heavier, and thirstier. The 1977 GM full-sizers changed all that. The 1977 Caprice, for example, retained the interior volume of the mastodon-class full-sized cars that came before it, yet it was lighter and smaller than any intermediate on the market at the time. While there wasn't anything really revolutionary in the technology employed...mainly just smaller engines and lighter bodies, it did usher in a new age of efficiency for domestic automobiles. Replies to this message: jimbres (Sep 21, 2008 5:40 pm)

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