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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
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I was referring to the V6s they installed when they downsized all their boats into the midsize cars they turned into... I am not ignoring Toy sludge or Honda 4s...but the simple fact is that Toy and Hon have not had as many lemons or poorly designed products as our makers do...I would never call Toy/Hon perfect but, as I listen to people over the years, many more people have been burned by a Big 3 product than Toy or Hon...I believe that more folks have abandoned Big 3 and moved over to Toy/Hon than the other way around, and I believe that it is because we were force-fed a lot of junk from the Big 3 that COULD have, and SHOULD have been a product with more quality...but they thought they were invincible, and did not care, and never saw the imports as real competition, that is, until we started buying them in droves... Big 3 have a lot of convincing to do to make many of us come back...now that the imports have a rep for quality, the Big 3 have become on the defensive...now you must SHOW the buyer why your product is as good as the imports, which means you had better be good, or the buyer will leave and NEVER come back...they may be openminded now and give you a look, but if GM/Ford do not equal the supposed rep for quality of the imports, they will soon be history, or at least a lot smaller... Years ago, KMart was the big boy and Walmart was an upstart...now it is different...Kmarts are here and there, and Walmart is EVERYWHERE...GM and Ford may become the size that Toy and Hon were in the 80s and 90s, as their products are in lesser demand over time... Sorry if I misinterpret you, but I am not obsessed...I DO pay attention to the junk they sold us in the 70s and 80s, even tho it was some time ago, because that rep for junk, IMO, truly followed them into the 90s and possibly into the millenium, meaning that what they did to Americans twenty-plus years ago has a strong influence on what is happening to them now...of course, YMMV...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 23, 2008 6:27 pm) Ironically, I ended up with one of those FWD V-6 cars, (1988 Buick Park Avenue) and they're really not as bad as I thought they were 20 years ago. They're extremely reliable, quite durable, and deliver great fuel economy.
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 23, 2008 6:27 pm) The V6 you might be referring to is the 3800? The engine that started out as an aluminum V8 and became an iron V6, sold to Jeep and bought back from American Motors? Again do you really know anything? |
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Replying to: lemko (Jul 24, 2008 5:26 am) |
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I promise I am not obsessed...I have not stated that 90% of GM owners have had a bad experience, I really do not know how many have...never knew...but the growth of the imports, and simply having known folks over the last 20 years, who owned American products, tried imports, and said they will not buy Big 3 again...lots of folks, and, multiple that by all the folks I do not know but that now buy imports, and I see, what is to me, the obvious conclusion that there are lots of us who do not see the Big 3 as having the same quality as imports...you may certainly know different people than I do, but there are a lot of Hondas and Toys sold to people that will never buy GM again...it is that simple... I am certainly failing to remember the years of the poorly designed V6s, but my Dad was in the auto parts business at the time, and he was telling me about all the design defects that should have been found by a 1st year engineering student, yet GM was selling cars that had serious engine defects, from simply a metallurgical standpoint...since Dad is no longer with us, I cannot verify with him...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 24, 2008 8:00 am) I will certainly agree that the big three's quality before 1990 was not as good as the Japanese imports. However, quality and reliability are two different things. The big three really started to improve quality after the 80's, and J. D. Power helped them to understand the problems that they had. GM has had a number of V6 engines. If your dad was an engineer and really qualified to design engines, why was he working in an auto parts store? On the other hand, the Buick V6 (or 3800) was a quick and dirt solution to an engine need in the early 60's. It was not a particularly well engineered V6, and was sold off to Jeep when Buick was able to replace it with better engines. In the late 70's some idiot decided that it was a quick way again to get a more fuel efficient engine into production. They did re-engineer the design a number of times to get it to the present day. Your Dad could have been talking about one of the truck engines too... You did say some posts back that "most of GM's vehicles were junk". If most were junk in the 70's and 80's, then by the mid 90's most of GM's customers would have been gone, leaving the company in bankruptcy. Since GM is not in bankruptcy, and is still selling more cars in the US than anyone else, I think your perception of how bad GM has been in the past is completely overblown. I think that a lot of the problems people have with their cars is a result of poor mantinence which is entirely due to the owner.
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Replying to: sls002 (Jul 24, 2008 10:25 am) Not my experience. Ford and Chevy rushed the Pinto and Vega to market. The Pintos were exploding and the Vegas looked nice, drove nice, rusted fast, and engines died very early. If those cars had been competitive then perhaps the reputation for junk would not have been as pronounced. I will certainly agree that the big three's quality before 1990 was not as good as the Japanese imports. So it wasn't the big 3's quality problems, yet the Japanese imports had better quality before 1990? Which side of the argument are you trying to promote? If your dad was an engineer and really qualified to design engines, why was he working in an auto parts store? If we all have to be working at the manufacturers' to be qualified to have knowledge, then perhaps we don't need these forums, as we don't all work for GM and Ford?!!!!! 
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If I implied that my Dad was an engineer, I must have been typing too fast...dad was not an engineer, just an auto parts man, mechanic, and a machinist, who knew his cars cold...I never meant to imply that he was an engineer, so if I said that, I apologize...but he was an expert on his cars, and we saw the junk soon after it was sold, as they only had 12 month, 12,000 mile warrantys...plus, selling parts meant we worked with a lot of local car dealers, GM/Ford/Chrysler, and they would often call us with the warranty work they had to perform, and it was amazing just how much junk was out there...can I give you numbers???...no...but it was there, as we were often seeing the stuff once out of warranty, only a year after it was sold new...
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Replying to: tlong (Jul 24, 2008 9:20 pm)
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 25, 2008 8:57 am)
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