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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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I never said that EVERY single vehicle was junk, but I do imply that the vast majority were junk...I would bet there are some folks who even bought creampuff Yugos, Vegas and Pintos, but they are in the minority... The simple fact is that as the auto market has grown over the last 20 years, much of that growth has been taken by imports...when I grew up, teens and young adults were dyed-in-the-wool Ford, Chevy or Chrysler guys...that is rare, today... For every one who posts here that raves about their Big 3 car, I will NEVER argue your experience...what I will argue is that I believe there are MANY more folks who have been burned by Big 3 cars that will never go back to Caddy or Lincoln...the numbers are simply against you...every geezer you see behind the wheel of a MB C or E series, or behind the wheel of a Lexus LS or ES, that is a sale that will probably never again walk into a Caddy or Lincoln (no more Imperials, eh???) showroom... And as the older folks, now 60-80, die off, the folks coming behind them, the Yuppies from (loosely) 40-60 are DEFINITELY not tied to Big 3 cars and have zero brand loyalty to GM or Ford...so, GM/Ford will have to produce a product superior in EVERY WAY, especially that indescribable "feel" of quality... If you remember the way that the original Lexus 400 was compared to the Caddy and Lincoln of the early 90s, the Caddy was barely qualified as a boat anchor...that comparison is what Caddy and Lincoln must do now to win sales back from Lexus...Caddy must blow away the competition or it will stay as an also-ran, because those who have deserted American cars are a larger group than those who will buy American only... I still maintain that when the cars are made down south by non-union labor, without stupid work rules, without Job Banks, and where they can be fired and replaced that day for shoddy workmanship, THEN, and only then, when the union has died and fades away, will American cars across the board show massive quality increases...now, one points to the CTS, Lucerne, and a few others, and nobody seems to notice how ridicupous that is, that 80% of the entire GM line does not stand out with quality... That is the problem to overcome...until it is, GM will be an also-ran...quite large, like Baby Huey, but an also-ran nonetheless...
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 20, 2008 1:34 pm) Then explain all the problems Nissan has had with the products coming out of Mississippi. |
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Replying to: sls002 (Jul 20, 2008 8:29 am) 84 FB and an 88 Fd'E. The 88's brakes sucked big time (changed 2 times by dealer in the first 30K miles and twice again by 70K, the valve gasket blew at 60K along with the water pump. Stranded for 4 weeks without this reliable baby. The '84 Fleetwood had about as much power as my mini bike with a 5 horse Tecumseh. I am now rushing out to get hosed at the closest Caddy dealer! Wish me luck.  Regards, OW |
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Jul 20, 2008 9:41 am) I apologize if y'all think I'm a one trick pony here but I would like to add my .02 worth. I, for one, did not have a low opinion of Cadillac when I purchased mine and perhaps that is why I am having such a hard time dealing with the way Cadillac is regarding my situation. I bought my STS because I felt guilty about buying a brand new Honda Accord in 2000. The "buy the cars that are built by your neighbors" thing seemed to make sense. Yes, I know it's built in America, but, being a Canadian, Americans are my "neighbors" too in my book. At least the profits don't go offshore. So I figured that if I was going to buy North American I would buy the best that they offered and to my way of thinking that was Cadillac. My 2000 STS is now rusting on all four doors in the same place and Cadillac accepts this and will not take responsibility (details on other threads and at http://www.geocities.com/myrusty2000cadillacsts/ ) I am now totally disillusioned and hope that others that still think the Cadillac name actually means something special will consider my situation and decide for themselves. P.S. BTW I am investigating the possibility of a Class Action Suit regarding the vibration problem...if you are interested let me know. This person will have a hard time going back to Caddy any time soon. Regards, OW
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Replying to: circlew (Jul 21, 2008 4:49 am) Interesting that it is a rust problem. Cadillac has been using two sided galvanized door metal since at least the 90's. Where is this rusting at? I did find the original posting and it was in 2003 so it was rusted within 3 years. This is very strange. Too bad we cannot see the actual issue. I guess we could start googling and posting all the Cadillac problems on this forum. I am sure that is exactly what the moderators want. On the other side we could post all the good experiences here also. In fact I think that is pretty much what this forum has turned into. That is too bad because at one time we actually discussed future product and interesting stuff.
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As far as I know the American auto industry back in the old 50's days wasnt that good. It was the competition that hadnt caught up yet, they were far worse. The Japanese industry was in its adolescence, still trying to match American quality. The Germans? They were still struggling from the mess left from WW2. Over the years the Japanese and German industries made bigger steps in advancement, eventually catching up with the Americans who didnt make as much progress as the competition. The result is what you people see now. Of course, not all of them succeed. Look at Jaguar, theyre basically in the same condition as Cadillac and Lincoln, even worse since Ford bought it (and now they sold it again). I'm not sure as of what happened to the US brands, but personally I chalked it down on arrogance. They got overconfident and didnt think the others would ever catch up, well, they did. I believe Mercedes walked a similar path, they got too confident in their products, making slow progress while charging stratospheric amount of $$$ for their cars. What happened o them? They slipped while Audi, BMW and even Lexus caught up with them. |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jul 21, 2008 5:03 am) Absolutely. Build product so I can buy one again. Then, it will be my World Standard along with a whole heck of a lot of other good folks. Yes, the change is apparently happening...but world standard is so far a reach from here, IMHO. Regards, OW
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Replying to: marsha7 (Jul 20, 2008 1:34 pm) The Vega was junk, the engines were aluminum, and the design was faulty. The Lexus 400 was built to compare with the Mercedes S-class. Cadillac bodies were still designed to flex. I think that GM had come to realize that they were way behind in body design about 1990. Of course Mercedes had been building stiffer bodies in the 60's, but GM ignored them. But GM started working on the so called G-body which went into production in 1994 as the Aurora and Riviera. J. D. Powers surveys suggest that GM does well relative to the industry average, with most brand near or above the average. Saturn is not so good, but better than Volkswagon. I very seriously doubt that you can substantiate your claims with facts. |
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Replying to: circlew (Jul 21, 2008 6:02 am) I think that Cadillac was tops only in the USA market in the 60's because there was no real competition. Lincoln, and Imperial were the competition, with imports of no concern in terms of sales. The Mercedes 600 was considered to be a far better car by the Car magazines, but it was priced with the Rolls Royce, and so was not considered to be a real car at the time. The current Rolls is so expensive that almost no one can afford one, and so is not a serious car.
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My facts are simply the loss of market share of the Big 3, and the growth of the imports at the expense of the Big 3...it is also odd that one of the traits often stated when someone is asked why they abandoned Big 3 and bought imports is "quality"...scientific or not, when the buyer leaves one product because they believe the other product has better quality, whether it is actually true or not, the Big 3 have lost a sale...and, as long as the buyer believes his import is better, he will continue to buy the "better" product...that, is a fact... When an entire nation is buying fewer of their own products and buying imports, SOMEBODY does not "see" the quality in the American product that you do...so you may argue with me all you want, but the perception of the buyer is their reality until something happens dramatic with the import to shake that reality... The Big 3 are in trouble, the imports are not...while not scientific fact, that is sufficient market proof for me... COOTER: I have no thoughts on that in Mississippi except to wonder why...
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