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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

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What is this discussion about? Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News

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#4645 of 6098 Re: OK - [sls002] by xhe518 Feb 28, 2008 (8:43 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:33 am) I guess you could say a 2002 STS is 'much' larger than a 2008 STS, but by the same token then, a 2008 DTS is 'much' larger than the 2002 STS...   Here's an interesting point - I'm sure you've heard the rumors (or maybe it's even fact) that Cadillac will merge the DTS and STS into one car in a few years....I wonder the new one will be closer to the STS (196 inches) or the DTS (207 inches) ? Or will they split the difference and be back to the 2002 STS size (201 in)
#4646 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [sls002] by circlew Feb 28, 2008 (9:04 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:42 am) To be fair to GM though, a nice Cadillac was always much bigger than a nice Mercedes and cost half as much.   But never the World Standard in luxury.   Regards, OW
#4647 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [sls002] by fintail Feb 28, 2008 (4:23 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:42 am) I think that's what a lot of people had problems with back in the day - the size of a Caddy vs the size of the competition. A highline MB or BMW would be the size of a Chevelle or a Fairlane or something of that class, but cost as much as a Caddy or Lincoln. Until the early 70s, MB "class" distinction (S-class etc) was more of a factor of engine and trim rather than the body - a highline and lowline car could share 90% of body parts and be virtually identical in size. But they'd have vastly different interiors and powertrains. That compared to the domestics, where each step up was a vast difference in appearance. I think people reached a point where size got to a point of diminishing returns.   I think the car you mention would be a W108/109, technically an S-class although in lower form can be considered an E-class. A 300SEL from that platform is certainly an S-class.   Caddy is today more comparable from a technology standpoint than at any time since the import competition for that customer hit North American shores.
#4648 of 6098 Best by sales - 2004 by circlew Feb 28, 2008 (10:11 am)
According to Forbes, top selling luxury nameplates for 2004 U.S. Sales (through Nov. 2004)/ price range   1. BMW 3'er - 95,980 - $20K-$30K 2. Lexus RX-330 - 94,164 - $30K-$40K 3. Cadillac DeVille - 61,739 - $40K-$50K 4. Cadillac 'Slade - 54,797 - $50K-$60K 5. Jag XJ - 9,590 - $60K-$70K 6. Merc S-Class - 18,082 - $70K-$80K 7. Merc SL-Class - 18,804 - $90K-$100K   Regards, OW
#4650 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [jimbres] by pmc4 Feb 28, 2008 (6:26 am)
Replying to: jimbres (Feb 27, 2008 8:00 pm) Jimbres, you said that the 80's Cadillacs were in your own words "pathetic". Why you said this I don't know. But anyway, the reason why I asked you what your opinion of the 80's BMW's was because you said Cadillacs were "pathetic" yet you also own a BMW.   "If you were a Cadillac marketing manager & you had to develop an ad campaign that tied the new CTS to the one of the great Cadillacs of the past, which car would you pick? A timeless beauty from the 50s or 60s or one of the rolling bathtubs from the 80s?"   The new CTS fortunately diverges from the Euro-influenced sedan it replaces; it has returned to its roots. For example, there is this fabulous lighting that frames the interior door pulls and exterior lamps, giving the car a marvelous look that can only be a Cadillac. The interior is fabulous. The exterior is fabulous. The whole car is fabulous, unlike the first CTS in 2002. Since the only cars to diverge from Cadillac greatness was the first-generation CTS, Catera and Cimmarron, I'd tie the new CTS to any of the Caddys of the past, excluding these three models listed. Maybe the '68 Eldorado Sinatra drove (but that car was considered a 'personal luxury coupe' not a sedan). Perhaps the 1976 Seville that got rave reviews. That would be this car:   Replies to this message: bumpy (Feb 28, 2008 12:00 pm) pmc4 (Feb 29, 2008 9:02 pm) jimbres (Feb 28, 2008 4:11 pm)
#4651 of 6098 Sorry, no link by 62vetteefp Feb 28, 2008 (11:30 am)
The year 1950 was the high point in the Cadillac brand’s post-World War II exports to Australia, when five cars were sold, including one to then-Prime Minister Robert Menzies.   For the next 40 years, Cadillacs came to symbolize American culture. The spectacularly vulgar be-finned barges of the 1950s and 1960s epitomized the country’s prosperity, captured in the 1956 Judy Holiday hit movie “The Solid Gold Cadillac.” Yet, the cars rarely left American shores.   Today, Cadillac vehicles are sold around the world, including Europe, Asia/Pacific, Latin America, Africa and the Middle East.   The Cadillac CTS’s upcoming debut in Australia in October will help confirm General Motors Corp.’s determination to transform the once America-centric brand into a genuine global player in the prestige class currently dominated by the German Big Three brands – Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi.   Cadillac’s re-emergence in Australia comes after three failed attempts in Europe. Having rejected the first-generation “global” models, only now is GM Holden Ltd. sufficiently confident Cadillac can consistently deliver competitive cars and build a full line of models.   Total Cadillac sales peaked at a staggering 350,813 in 1978, though it was this very popularity that eventually diminished the brand’s image in the U.S.   In the wake of the first and second energy crisis, GM integrated Cadillac engineering with its down-market divisions. Over the next two decades, as the cars moved to front-wheel drive, Cadillac lost its unique styling, specific engineering and quality. Affluent Americans began buying European prestige marques, instead.   The nadir came with the ‘81 Cimarron, a 4-cyl. with wind-up windows and manual gearbox, the first in a Cadillac since 1951. By 1998, sales had bottomed at 170,379. By then, GM already had made the strategic decision to revive the once-revered marque.   The GM board accepted that taking on the Europeans and Japanese (Lexus) would consume $6 billion (in mid-1990s dollars). Most of the money was spent on the creation of the new large-car, rear-drive Sigma architecture that, for a time in the late 1990s, also was intended to form the basis for GM Holden’s all-new VE Commodore.   That didn’t happen, but Sigma did spawn the CTS in 2002 and subsequent STS sedan and SRX cross/utility vehicle. GM Holden looked at all three models before deciding Australian customers would never accept the poor packaging – one reason the platform was rejected for the VE – including the lousy interior quality.   The second-generation CTS addresses both issues and brings an increased model lineup that’s clearly intended to confront the BMW 3-Series.   Both the gorgeous CTS Coupe, seen at January’s North American International Auto Show in Detroit as a concept, plus a wagon version, are expected here in 2009. Sadly, the CTS-V that’s aimed at the BMW M3 and gets the supercharged 6.2L Corvette ZR1 engine, is left-hand drive only.   In size, the CTS is positioned against the 5-Series/E-Class/A6. But its base price just below $70,000 pits it against the 3-Series, as well. Australian models get a 3.6L direct-injection V-6 that basically is the Commodore’s V-6.   There also are plans to offer the new 247-hp, 406 lb.-ft (550-Nm) VM 2.9L direct-injection V-6 diesel, so desperately needed in Europe and currently being tested in the Commodore.   As well, there is the production version of the compact AWD Provoq CUV hydrogen fuel-cell concept unwrapped at this year’s Detroit show to demonstrate a step forward in GM’s E-Flex propulsion system.   The street-version Provoq will be built on GM’s Theta-Epsilon platform using a conventional gasoline engine and will go on sale in Australia in 2010. A GM insider says the Provoq will be built in Mexico alongside platform-mates, the Saab 9-4X variant and Saturn Vue CUV.   Cadillac also is planning to replace its STS and (stretched) DTS large sedans with a single rear-drive model. But instead of using the Sigma architecture, the new car is being designed and engineered in Australia using GM Holden’s long- wheelbase WM (Statesman and Caprice) underpinnings.   It’s possible the new Caddy, due in 2011 or 2012, will represent the convergence of the Zeta RWD platform with the more-expensive Sigma architectures. However, no one is saying so just yet.   This also raises the question of whether GM Holden is prepared to pit the new Cadillac model against its local Caprice that inevitably will be priced some $25,000 below the Cadillac.   Cadillac’s decision to base the new large car, aimed at the E-Class and 5-Series, on Zeta architecture was taken before GM cancelled plans to replace the Northstar V-8, Cadillac’s premium quad-cam engine, in 2009.   The new engine was killed after the auto maker realized Washington was determined to press ahead with a new corporate average fuel economy standard that calls for the U.S. fleet of cars and trucks to achieve an average 35 mpg (6.7 L/100 km) by 2020.   Even before the new CAFE requirement and the failure of the European BLS, Cadillac knew it needed a true 3-Series rival, a smaller model aimed more at Europe and other global markets than the U.S.   That car, due in 2010 in a variety of body styles, is based on the new rear-drive Alpha architecture and already is penciled in for Australia, as well.   Building a credible luxury brand in a sophisticated market like Australia is not easy. It’s taken Audi AG more than two decades to be a serious player. GM Holden (and Cadillac) must be prepared to invest heavily and take the long view.   Convincing Australians that Cadillac deserves comparison with BMW and Mercedes brands, and is a class above Chrysler, won’t be easy. Delaying Cadillac’s return until the arrival of the second-generation CTS reveals a realistic and welcome maturity.
#4652 of 6098 V6 vs. V8 by 62vetteefp Feb 28, 2008 (11:32 am)
Since GM has suspended development of the next-generation premium V-8 that would have replaced its able but aging Northstar V-8, the DIG high-feature V-6 could be a suitable substitute down the road?   “On one hand,” says Cyrus, “nothing sounds like a V-8. On the other hand, a lot of customers are saying, ‘V-6 is good.’ We get quite a good draw on it in Cadillacs where we offer both.   We expected to sell quite a few V-8s and smaller numbers of V-6s, but sales have gone the other way around, probably 80% V-6 and 20% V-8 in the STS. For the time being, we’ll continue to offer both and let the customer decide.” Replies to this message: xhe518 (Feb 28, 2008 11:35 am)
#4653 of 6098 Re: V6 vs. V8 [62vetteefp] by xhe518 Feb 28, 2008 (11:35 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Feb 28, 2008 11:32 am) the DIG high-feature V-6 could be a suitable substitute down the road?    We expected to sell quite a few V-8s and smaller numbers of V-6s, but sales have gone the other way around, probably 80% V-6 and 20% V-8 in the STS. For the time being, we’ll continue to offer both and let the customer decide.”   I don't think we're too far from the point where a V8 is about as desirable among trend-setters as wearing a mink coat to a PETA convention.
#4654 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [pmc4] by bumpy Feb 28, 2008 (12:00 pm)
Replying to: pmc4 (Feb 28, 2008 6:26 am) Perhaps the 1976 Seville that got rave reviews.   Looks like a late-70s Malibu with a Cadillac grille, emblematic of Cadillac's descent into irrelevance. Bleh. Replies to this message: pmc4 (Feb 29, 2008 9:02 pm)

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You are here: Forums Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?