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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

6098 messages,  Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM

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What is this discussion about? Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News

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#4641 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [lemko] by xhe518 Feb 28, 2008 (7:50 am)
Replying to: lemko (Feb 28, 2008 7:46 am) I don't think the new STS is really all that much smaller than the older FWD STS - I think maybe the older one seemed roomier due to FWD.... I'd have to look up the specs and check back ....my first impression is the new STS is roughly the same size as the old one though....
#4642 of 6098 OK - by xhe518 Feb 28, 2008 (7:58 am)
I went back and checked.... The older Seville STS is almost exactly in between a DTS and STS in size   2008 STS - 196 inches long, 116 wheelbase, 3973lbs   2002 Seville - 201 inches long, 112 wheelbase, 3992lbs   2008 DTS - 207 inches long, 115.6 wheelbase, 4009lbs   http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/cadillac/seville/19037/specs.html http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/cadillac/sts/100886907/specs.html http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/cadillac/dts/100888385/specs.html Replies to this message: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:33 am) xhe518 (Feb 28, 2008 8:43 am)
#4643 of 6098 Re: OK - [xhe518] by sls002 Feb 28, 2008 (8:33 am)
Replying to: xhe518 (Feb 28, 2008 7:58 am) That does not tell you about the interior space. I had a 2002 SLS and traded it for an SRX (a stationwagon/SUV version of the RWD STS) and my feeling is that there is no difference in interior room. However, the legroom and headroom are the same, while the shoulder room is 1.5 inches less and the hip room is 2 inches less for the STS. So, Lemko is right about the DTS being bigger on the inside.   What I like about the SRX vs the SLS is the handling. The SRX is much better handling and will make a shorter U turn than the SLS could. The SRX feels more like a sports car by comparison, although not really like my 86 Corvette. Replies to this message: xhe518 (Feb 28, 2008 8:43 am)
#4644 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [fintail] by sls002 Feb 28, 2008 (8:42 am)
Replying to: fintail (Feb 28, 2008 1:57 am) Mercedes was way ahead of GM in engineering in the 60's, and while I think perhaps GM has finally reached the point of being comparable now, they were probably behind through most of the 90's. To be fair to GM though, a nice Cadillac was always much bigger than a nice Mercedes and cost half as much. From my point of view, a Buick (far cheaper than the Cadillac) was a far more sensible choice. The Buick was affordable. But the E-class (used to be a 280 or 300 I think back when - mid-60's) Mercedes was a very well engineered car. Replies to this message: circlew (Feb 28, 2008 9:04 am) fintail (Feb 28, 2008 4:23 am)
#4645 of 6098 Re: OK - [sls002] by xhe518 Feb 28, 2008 (8:43 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:33 am) I guess you could say a 2002 STS is 'much' larger than a 2008 STS, but by the same token then, a 2008 DTS is 'much' larger than the 2002 STS...   Here's an interesting point - I'm sure you've heard the rumors (or maybe it's even fact) that Cadillac will merge the DTS and STS into one car in a few years....I wonder the new one will be closer to the STS (196 inches) or the DTS (207 inches) ? Or will they split the difference and be back to the 2002 STS size (201 in)
#4646 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [sls002] by circlew Feb 28, 2008 (9:04 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:42 am) To be fair to GM though, a nice Cadillac was always much bigger than a nice Mercedes and cost half as much.   But never the World Standard in luxury.   Regards, OW
#4647 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [sls002] by fintail Feb 28, 2008 (4:23 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Feb 28, 2008 8:42 am) I think that's what a lot of people had problems with back in the day - the size of a Caddy vs the size of the competition. A highline MB or BMW would be the size of a Chevelle or a Fairlane or something of that class, but cost as much as a Caddy or Lincoln. Until the early 70s, MB "class" distinction (S-class etc) was more of a factor of engine and trim rather than the body - a highline and lowline car could share 90% of body parts and be virtually identical in size. But they'd have vastly different interiors and powertrains. That compared to the domestics, where each step up was a vast difference in appearance. I think people reached a point where size got to a point of diminishing returns.   I think the car you mention would be a W108/109, technically an S-class although in lower form can be considered an E-class. A 300SEL from that platform is certainly an S-class.   Caddy is today more comparable from a technology standpoint than at any time since the import competition for that customer hit North American shores.
#4648 of 6098 Best by sales - 2004 by circlew Feb 28, 2008 (10:11 am)
According to Forbes, top selling luxury nameplates for 2004 U.S. Sales (through Nov. 2004)/ price range   1. BMW 3'er - 95,980 - $20K-$30K 2. Lexus RX-330 - 94,164 - $30K-$40K 3. Cadillac DeVille - 61,739 - $40K-$50K 4. Cadillac 'Slade - 54,797 - $50K-$60K 5. Jag XJ - 9,590 - $60K-$70K 6. Merc S-Class - 18,082 - $70K-$80K 7. Merc SL-Class - 18,804 - $90K-$100K   Regards, OW
#4650 of 6098 Re: The Only Luxury Car... [jimbres] by pmc4 Feb 28, 2008 (6:26 am)
Replying to: jimbres (Feb 27, 2008 8:00 pm) Jimbres, you said that the 80's Cadillacs were in your own words "pathetic". Why you said this I don't know. But anyway, the reason why I asked you what your opinion of the 80's BMW's was because you said Cadillacs were "pathetic" yet you also own a BMW.   "If you were a Cadillac marketing manager & you had to develop an ad campaign that tied the new CTS to the one of the great Cadillacs of the past, which car would you pick? A timeless beauty from the 50s or 60s or one of the rolling bathtubs from the 80s?"   The new CTS fortunately diverges from the Euro-influenced sedan it replaces; it has returned to its roots. For example, there is this fabulous lighting that frames the interior door pulls and exterior lamps, giving the car a marvelous look that can only be a Cadillac. The interior is fabulous. The exterior is fabulous. The whole car is fabulous, unlike the first CTS in 2002. Since the only cars to diverge from Cadillac greatness was the first-generation CTS, Catera and Cimmarron, I'd tie the new CTS to any of the Caddys of the past, excluding these three models listed. Maybe the '68 Eldorado Sinatra drove (but that car was considered a 'personal luxury coupe' not a sedan). Perhaps the 1976 Seville that got rave reviews. That would be this car:   Replies to this message: bumpy (Feb 28, 2008 12:00 pm) pmc4 (Feb 29, 2008 9:02 pm) jimbres (Feb 28, 2008 4:11 pm)

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