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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Feb 27, 2008 4:45 am) What about Rolls?? Bentley? Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Caddy as World Standard? Never to be seen again (if it ever really was). The Mark of Excellence is not used anymore for a good reason. Because it's not true. BTW, I or my family have owed cars produced by the now infamous Big 3 for over 55 years. I just got tired of waiting and hoping. Now that the GM allowed the CTS to get interesting, I am waiting to see if they mess it up. Regards, OW.
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Replying to: circlew (Feb 27, 2008 5:15 am) Is it the most ostentatious? elegant? technical? highest priced? best price for the money? greenest? best quality? highest reliability? It is not any of the above and yet may be all of the above. for our purposes here I would say it is the product that when someone on the street sees it says: now that is a great car that I really want to aspire to/ have. It is what everyone says is the best of the best. Right now because this world is so flat I do not believe there is one marque out there that is the top dog. But for this discussion I believe we should look for say the top 2 or 3 that meets my definition. Rolls and Bentley I would say they meet the above definition but are so much more expensive relative to others that they knock themselves out of the running. When Cadillac was the "standard of the world" (the world being the US at that time) the other marquees were not that far behind them in price. Sure the caddy was expensive but it was not 5 times the price of the normal car being sold. So per my thoughts the BMW's, MB's, Audis, Lexi, Caddys are the ones that can compete for this "standard". I guess I would think that most would say MB is the standard compared to the rest. Sure it is not a performance car like the BMW but in my opinion if a high priced BMW is sitting next to a high priced MB I would say the MB has more prestige. Am I right here? At this time Cadillac does not have models to compete with the high end. At the low end (3, CTS) Caddy is very well represented. Time will tell if the newer models make the same inroads. And please do not start a thread on how CTS has a cheap interior or whatever. It is recognized by the media as being right up there with the best of them.
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I'm not sure about that either. The fastest way to commit fiscal suicide is to buy a 1980s Rolls! I really don't want Cadillac to chase Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes too much. It is at the sweet spot for me as far as affordability. I'd have to defect to Buick if Caddy goes too high end. If Buick goes away, I have nowhere to go. Chrysler? Nah, the 300 is getting too long in the tooth. Lincoln? Feh! Nothing there anymore.
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Feb 27, 2008 6:52 am) Not a problem and I agree. Your point is well taken. The reality in my view is that visibly, edgy doesn't do it for me but inside, it is very nice inside. Previous to 2008, no Caddy was appealing at all to me. Therefore, I would not have cause to have the marque on my comparo list. 'Doesn't do anything great for me' also comes to mind as I review Caddy products. Since the topic is Caddy's potential to be the standard, no current model says they are going to claim that any time soon. Regards, OW |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Feb 27, 2008 6:52 am) I think Cadillac made an attempt to get into the true high end luxury market with the Eldorado Brougham in the late fifties, but this model was more glitz than anything and was a maintenance pig. I would agree with you on BMW (mostly sports sedans) vs Mercedes (wide range of luxury/sport_sedan models). For prestige the Rolls is it, but is way out of range for nearly everyone. Mercedes is prestigious, and one can buy a C-class for a reasonable price (which may not be quite as much prestige as an S-class, but still is a Mercedes). I have yet to see a new CTS. I did take my SRX back recently for the axle seal recall, but the showroom only had Corvette's, Impala's and SUV's to look at. But I do think the CTS with the new interior and re-sized body may replace the DTS as the popularly priced Cadillac. |
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Feb 27, 2008 4:45 am) Interesting to note that the Is Lexus The Standard of the World? discussion doesn't get too many comments. I don't hear comments like the Rolex of can openers or the Mont Blanc of down pillows. Cadillac still seems to own the phrase - people just don't seem to make comparisons like that as much anymore. Maybe because Timexes keep time as well as a Rolex with a lot less maintenance and expense, and Bics write better than most Mont Blancs? |
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Replying to: claires (Feb 26, 2008 7:51 pm) Nicely put. Seems like many of we posters get all hung up about the word "standard". According to some folks, the "standard" term was used with regard to some race sponsored by Dewars that Cadillac had won. If "standard" of luxury/performance had actually been awarded to a car mfr on annual basis over years by some group such as WSJ, NY Times, Motor Trend, CR, Car and Driver, Road and Track, etc, then maybe it might be useful to use that term. But, that has not been the case. Maybe we are really talking about the desire and capability of GM to return Cadillac to its former glory status and how close is it now in achieving that goal. But, some will say, what is "glory". Do we even know if GM has set goal to make Cadillac the top luxury car of the world? Have Wagoner or Lutz stated so or is it mentioned in GM annual report to shareholders? If they have set that goal, how will they know when they have met it?
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Replying to: lemko (Feb 27, 2008 7:42 am) |
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Replying to: bumpy (Feb 27, 2008 9:00 am) The non-V CTS doesn't have a V8 anyway. I'm also pretty sure I read somewhere that they will keep on building the Northstar for those that want to count cylinders, even though the DI 3.6L makes more power. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Feb 27, 2008 3:54 am) Great point!!! Is it possible, with the advent of the Japanese luxury marks over the last 20 yrs, trying to emulate BOTH Cadillac AND the Germans, only with cust. svc. and Quality in mind, that what has happened is that Caddy has tried to remain true to it's recent history as being that luxury car (the "sofa"on wheels) that Americans aspired to own as they chased the American dream. Yet quality issues, not styling have nagged them. The Germans on the other hand, have that import "prestige" on their side and have masked their quality issues by building a "supercar" image with gadgets and V-10's and V-12's and such. Even early on, the Japanese made thinly veiled "gussied up" versions of their more popular sedans into Luxury Marques, but the quality and reliability is what allowed them to gain a foothold. couple this with the fact that people come out of college EXPECTING the American Dream to be there waiting for it, there is nothing left for them to "aspire" to. Caddy's Northstar V-8 has been around now for almost 15 years. It is one of the better V-8's on the market still. But, no V-12 bling, sticks that are few and far in between, and quality and reliability on par with the Germans, but (questionable now) historically behind the Japs. They are criticized for not being as sporty as the Germans (not meant to be), but not as reliable as the Japs (point well taken, but now in SOME question), so that kind of puts them in no man's land in the luxury arena. What they SHOULD do w/ the CTS is pound it into the public's head that it is BIGGER and LESS EXPENSIVE than the 5 or E!!! Screw the magazines that compare it to the 3 and C!!! They may not get people looking for a 5 or E to buy into that, though they may, but they WILL get it into their heads that it is MORE CAR for the SAME PRICE as the 3,C,IS,A-4, etc. Caddy may NEVER have been as good as it was looked at in the '50's or '60's, but it sure as hell was never as bad as people said in the '70's or '80's.
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