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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 09, 2008 8:49 am) I'm talking comparable cars. Dont think the Boxter is comparable to the CTS-V or IS-F. Simple point was that for $60k the CTS-V will offer more bang for your buck. I'm sure you will disagree since it seems you arent a fan of Cadillac at all. I dont find it surprising that you dont like Fi engines since Cadillac is using one. MB and BMW also use FI engines but I'm sure that doesnt make a difference.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 09, 2008 10:43 am) If I have to be a fan to agree with what you've said then you better look back to see if there is any flaw in your statement. A fair statement will get all kind of people to agree with it. I think if the new CTS-V to have MSRP of around $60k it'll be the best value in the ubber sports sedan class. Whether it's the best or not is yet to be seen since so far we have only the engine specs to compare. HP isn't everything, if that's the case, BMW should just pack up and go home with the new M3. You can search through my posts and you'll see I prefer NA over FI from day one that I posted here.
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 09, 2008 10:55 am) Agreed about the packing up and going home. The CTS_V is a proven entity so the notion that "its fast but we dont know about the handling" is a little hard to swallow for me. This isnt a big block 60s muscle car, its a sports sedan designed to go head to head with the best of Europe. The last car had the handling, power and steering to compete but lacked interior finesse and had problems getting the power to the pavement in hard launches. The new car obviously aimed to address those shortcomings and then some. Unless Cadillac has swapped the CTS' chassis with something from Toyota or Hyundai I don't see how this car cant be considered best in class. The pedigree of the V series cars has been vetted by the press for the last 3+ years so we know what to expect from these cars when the road gets curvy. On another site it was noted that Top Gear got better lap times from the CTS-V than the S4. I say you arent a Cadillac fan since you seem unimpressed with anything they offer and post more about the superiority of foreign brands than about Cadillac's resurgence. My statement had little to do with agreeing with my statements.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 09, 2008 11:23 am) 'Simple point was that for $60k the CTS-V will offer more bang for your buck. I'm sure you will disagree since it seems you arent a fan of Cadillac at all. ' So pretty much you were saying that if one is a Cadillac fan then he/she will agree for $60k the CTS-V will offer more bang for the buck. If not then he/she will disagree. However, if the CTS-V is truly and hands down the best bang for the buck at $60k then I think all people will agree regardless of being Caddy fans or not. Okay, let's compare the chassis between the CTS and 5-series, I think the general consensus from all the reviews is that although the CTS handles great, it is not yet a 5-series beater, not to mention the 3-series. So since the CTS-V, M5 and M3 are all built on the base models' chassis what will make me to believe that it'll out handle the Bimmers? Again, HP isn't everything. Also, just to remind you that I don't think the M3 and M5 are packing anything up to go anywhere soon.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 09, 2008 8:31 am) |
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 09, 2008 8:31 am) |
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 09, 2008 11:39 am) never seen that "consensus" view you speak of but perhaps I am alone. I will say that based on the numbers posted in instrumented testing the CTS is on par with the 5. The CTS is rarely compared to the 5 series because of its price even though they are about the exact same size. I cant be as nimble as a 3 series do its wheelbase length and weight although it did post a better lane change speed than the 328 in a recent comparo. I have seen nothing regarding the 2008 CTS indicating it cant handle as well as a 5 series. If you have a particular review in mind that states that feel free to let me know. I can tell you that C&D informally compared the CTS-V to M3 and last gen M5 (it had just been discontinued) in 2004 and said the Caddy was very comparable to the M5 and considering its price advantage was a great alternative. To be perfectly honest any driver with a bias can say the BMW handles better so the real measure needs to be objective, like a lap time at a track. Once the CTS-V comes out I'm sure someone will mention its lap time at the Ring and compare that to the C63, M3, etc. and then I think we will have an answer. "Also, just to remind you that I don't think the M3 and M5 are packing anything up to go anywhere soon. " M3 comes out a few months before the CTS-V. Its not being redesigned anytime soon. They are peers in price and unless the CTS-V has a secret flaw it should be able to do anything the M3 can do, only a little faster. when you get to this level of performance its hard to say which car is "better" per se since they all perform within a hair of each other. The question isnt whether or not the CTS-V can beat the M cars across the board, the question is if the car is a no excuses American alternative. The answer is yes.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 09, 2008 12:05 pm) Also, you are so right on one shouldn't judge a car based on objective feelings and should focus on the cold hard facts like the slalom, skidpad, acceleration and braking test data. Once the full test has been done then we can see how well the CTS-V stack up against the competitors.
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 09, 2008 12:23 pm) If I could afford a car in that range I would get one regardless. There is no way a few tenths of acceleration through the 1/4 mile or a foot longer stopping distance would dissuade me from buying this car over an $82k M5 especially since I dont even like the interior of the M5. For those who need to see the stats before being impressed I think its logical to wait until the mags get a hold of this car.
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