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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 07, 2008 7:10 am) Rare is the company that can succeed by telling the customer that "you don't need 'X', so take 'Y' and be happy with it". You are angry and confrontational for reasons I cant discern at this time. Not sure why you are getting so bent out of shape because I am not one of these people who says we should shame anyone who owns an SUV or luxury sedan. That said, the rules have been changed and there is nothing we can do about it. From an image and CAFE standpoint V8s are going to get less popular. Not sure why you or anyone else wouldn't think this is coming after the law was signed. I see you made no mention of how small V8 sales are in European sedans. You say that no V8 in the CTS and STS (remember CTS-V will have V8) means Cadillac is trying to compete with Toyota and HOnda (funny) but the fact of the matter is 80% or 90% of sedans that offer a V8 are sold with a V6. This has been the case with the STS even though until the 2008 model year the V6 made only 255hp. Now that it has 302hp you can rest assured the V8 will be even less popular. BMW made its own V8 obsolete when it put the 300hp I-6 in the 535. The 535 is just as fast as the old 545i and barely slower than the 550i. BTW, lets not confuse Acura with cadillac. Cadillac has a RWD chassis with near 50/50 weight distribution and develops cars on the Ring. Acura does neither. A powerful RWD sports sedan with a six cylinder engine will sell as evidenced by the 3 series, G35 and new CTS. The DTS comes standard with a 275hp V8 right now so I dont see how its replacement will be at a disadvantage with a standard 304hp V6. I wish things werent this way but I'm glad GM is being proactive instead of investing millions in a small volume V8 that would only hurt their CAFE numbers in the long run.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 07, 2008 5:57 am) You are right. The ES is their biggest seller Wrong, the RX is their biggest seller so see above. By the way, what Cadillac product have the youngest owner age? I would bet it's the CTS and maybe the Escalade. But according to the JP Power data we can see that even with the new 2008 CTS, Caddy is not attracting many owners under the age of 40.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 07, 2008 8:53 am) The fact that 80%-90% of sedans are sold with a I6/V6 can also be misconstrued. BMW sells 85%+ of its 5-series with an automatic transmission. But their image as being king of the hill in the sport sedan segment almost mandates that they cater to the enthusiast minority, many of whom require a manual transmission. A decision by BMW to drop the manual transmission would, again IMO, have an impact beyond the 15% that actually buy a manual. On the side note of confusing Acura with Cadillac, I have been unbashful in my criticism of Acura in other forums for not using its engineering prowess and Formula One expereince/success more to its advantage. This in spite of having a 2004 TL 6-speed and 2005 MDX in our garage. Nevertheless, let's not confuse a RWD platform, 50/50 weight balance, and a marketing show at "The Ring" with world class driving dynamics. Acura may be guilty of conservative underachievement (with the exception of the Honda S2000), but Cadillac is no BMW when it comes to driving dynamics. I do agree with your point that the new fuel efficiency / CAFE requirements are going to result in some changes in both attitudes and model offerings. I myself am looking forward to my first drive in a BMW 535d. My marketing director has a E320 Bluetech and routinely gets in the high 30's MPG at 75 mph on the highway. She claims to have never gotten worse than 24 for a tank in mostly city driving. The high performance diesels, in my opinion, are likely to be the big victors in this battle to achieve better fuel efficiency.
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 07, 2008 6:01 am) JD Power Model Age Profile (all 2008 models except the Lexus LS which is 2007): Cadillac CTS: Ages 16-35 - 12% Ages 36-55 - 34% Ages 56+ - 54% Cadillac STS: Ages 16-35 - 5% Ages 36-55 - 22% Ages 56+ - 73% Lexus IS: Ages 16-35 - 41% Ages 36-55 - 43% Ages 56+ - 17% Lexus ES: Ages 16-35 - 8% Ages 36-55 - 38% Ages 56+ - 54% Lexus GS: Ages 16-35 - 30% Ages 36-55 - 30% Ages 56+ - 40% Lexus LS: Ages 16-35 - 6% Ages 36-55 - 29% Ages 56+ - 65% Cadillac really don't have much of a case here declaring it has a younger image than Lexus except maybe the ES. However, even the ES has the same age profile as the CTS, the youngest model of all Cadillac. What more amazingly is that even the Lexus LS has a younger age profile than Cadillac's "sports sedan" STS.  Cadillac is getting younger buyers as time goes forward. I dont think we can say the same about lexus. Really? Lexus is getting a whole lot more buying into their 2nd generation IS and with the age profile it has I am sure it has contributed A LOT to getting Lexus younger. On the other hand, Cadillac really can't say that about their new 2008 CTS because very unfortunately, the old 2007 CTS has a younger age profile: 2007 CTS: Ages 16-35 - 14% Ages 36-55 - 39% Ages 56+ - 47% I can tell you most drivers I see of the SRX, CTS (especially V) and Escalade are under 50 2008 Escalade: Ages 16-35 - 23% Ages 36-55 - 53% Ages 56+ - 24% 2008 SRX: Ages 16-35 - 4% Ages 36-55 - 41% Ages 56+ - 55% You maybe have a case here for the Escalade but the cold hard data from JD Power doesn't support your statement for the SRX and CTS. I am sure CTS-V has a lot young owners but unfortunately Cadillac doesn't make those in significant numbers so it has little say to the overall picture.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 07, 2008 10:01 am) |
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 07, 2008 10:02 am) Lexus doesn't exactly have a young "hip" image but, on the other hand, Cadillac still has an image among some of appealing to the very old and dead demographic. Perhaps that is changing. But they do spend as much advertising dollars on the Senior PGA tour as the regular PGA tour. Saw that in the WSJ a few weeks ago. Author joked that they should come with Viagra (another big Senior Tour advertiser) in the glove compartment.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 07, 2008 10:24 am)
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Replying to: louiswei (Jan 07, 2008 9:41 am) Very true but if we look at Mercedes their average age is 59, 6 years older than Cadillac (53). Heck Rolls is a dead old age of 63  . Lexus is just under Cadillac with 49. Even BMW with their very youthful/sporty/performance high volume 3 series has an average of 46. So it really looks like the major reason that Cadillac and others in the same $ ball park are buyers with an average of close to 50 is due to wealth, and most of the wealth in this country is held by older folks. And if you look at the younger average ages you see that they are all low priced marques. Who woulda thought!! But there is no doubt that if Cadillac wants to attract the same buyers as BMW they have their work cut out for them. CTS is just a start. When they drop the DTS next year most of those buyers will swap over to the STS but many will just keep their DTS untill they can no longer drive. In the short run dropping the DTS should drop Cadillacs average age but in the longer term they need to continue to go after the baby boomers with a different kind of product.
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