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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

6098 messages,  Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM

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What is this discussion about? Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News


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#4223 of 6098
Ultra V8 axed by sevenfeet0
Jan 04, 2008 (7:15 am)
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Well, it's not completely surprising that the new engine program was killed, but I am a bit surprised. The thing we don't know is what happens next. Does Cadillac fold its tent on V8 power, which is pretty much a continuous tradition since the 1920's? Or does something else happen?
 
The Ultra program had probably spent much of its development money on the technology research it needed to make a new product and was likely in the midst of testing. The question now is whether GM will salvage some of those technologies to extend the life of the old Northstar into the 2010s. VVT was grafted onto the Northstar during its last refresh a few years ago. DI could well ended up grafted to the current engine, as well as other enhancements. Who knows?
 
The other thing we don't know is if Cadillac is moving toward other technologies to make up the performance slack. Lexus and Honda have already shipped performance hybrids (though Honda's was less successful). Cadillac could do something similar with the new two-mode transmission. The hard part will be getting the two-mode design small enough that will fit in the transmission bay of passenger vehicles versus full sized SUVs.
#4224 of 6098
. by sls002
Jan 04, 2008 (7:49 am)
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perhaps the large RWD sedans will also get the ax along with the V8. or perhaps the battery development for the volt is going well and that can be used instead...
#4225 of 6098
Re: Ultra V8 axed [sevenfeet0] by 62vetteefp
Jan 04, 2008 (8:56 am)
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Replying to: sevenfeet0 (Jan 04, 2008 7:15 am)

Per some other comments and my guessing:
CTS/STS: base engine in future 3.6L V6
 
optional: Diesel
 
V series: DOHC LS V8's that are being developed right now. Of course they need to be sure it fits.
 
a document leaked on the web suggests that the General will change direction and introduce a new 6.2L dual overhead cam (DOHC) engine in 2011.
 
The document in question is an internal memorandum of understanding between General Motors, the UAW and Delphi. The result of negotiations that took place back in June 2007, the document details future product commitments to which GM had agreed, one of which is a new 'Gen V' 6.2L DOHC V8 engine for use in the C3XX platform. As we learned from the most recent negotiations between GM and the UAW, C3XX is the codename for what will replace the GMT 900 platform that underpins the automaker's current line of full-size trucks and SUVs.
 
In addition to a new overhead valve design, the Gen V engine will also feature variable valve timing like the Gen IV engine it replaces. Since the new engine will likely have four valves per cylinder because of its OHC design, expect the VVT to be even more beneficial. In addition, and perhaps most surprising, is that the Gen V will also feature GM's active fuel management (AFM) or cylinder deactivation technology. This technology alone will give it the leg up on other OHC engines like the Toyota Tundra's 5.7L DOHC V8.
#4226 of 6098
Re: Can we get back to Cadillac [lemko] by habitat1
Jan 04, 2008 (10:18 am)
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Replying to: lemko (Jan 04, 2008 6:56 am)

That's the way it always plays out. The fat cats still get to live the lifestyles they've always enjoyed and the poor and middle class make all the sacrifices. While we're either taking the bus, riding bicycles, driving microcars, or walking, the fat cats will be zooming past us in their armored S-Classes as they dump their ashtrays full of spent Cohibas at us.
 
Great, we've gone from a Consumer Reports consipracy to some "wealth is the root of evil" conspiracy. Have I landed in a Socialist/Communist blog site by accident?
 
I don't happen to be in the top income bracket or drive an S class, but for those that are envious of wealth, you might want to get off your sorry butts and do a little research. You will find the the lower half of Americans in terms of income pay a whopping grand total of 3% of all income taxes. That's it. anything less and it would be nothing. The upper half pay 97%. The top 5% pay 57%. Check it out: Income Taxes
 
And as far as that S class? It get's 16 mpg combined, resulting in a gas guzzler tax of $3,700. But all those Escalades, Tahoes, Suburbans and Expeditions clogging our highways and parking lots? The get a combined 14 mpg, spew out an average of 20% more CO2 emissions but heaven forbid that they get hit with any gas guzzler tax whatsoever. After all, they are "work trucks" for all of those soccer moms according to the GM/Ford lobbyists that have come to your rescue. You know, the same lobbyists that worked against clean diesel requirements such that Mercedes couldn't import its 35 mpg E320 Bluetech until about a year ago (and still can't sell it in a few states).
 
There are plenty of socioeconomic inequities in the world and in the US. But before anyone takes aim at the wealthy, you might want to get your facts straight. And you might end up finding that you owe a debt of gratitude to at least some of those S class driving entrepreneurs that creating wealth and jobs for others in spite of paying taxes to cover a bunch of freeloaders along the way.
#4227 of 6098
Re: Can we get back to Cadillac [habitat1] by louiswei
Jan 04, 2008 (10:25 am)
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 04, 2008 10:18 am)

Have I landed in a Socialist/Communist blog site by accident?
 
Hab, you just found out?
 
Geez...
 
 
#4228 of 6098
Re: Ultra V8 axed [62vetteefp] by mr215
Jan 04, 2008 (11:24 am)
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Jan 04, 2008 8:56 am)

I dont see any way that Caddy is going to get out of the V8 business but it obviously wont be getting a brand new DOHC engine design. I would say they will either extend the life of the northstar and give it some upgrades or start using a turbo V6 as a replacement like Lincoln is planning to do. Obviously the escalde will continue to be powered by V8 engines.
#4229 of 6098
Re: Can we get back to Cadillac [habitat1] by mr215
Jan 04, 2008 (11:29 am)
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 04, 2008 10:18 am)

"You will find the the lower half of Americans in terms of income pay a whopping grand total of 3% of all income taxes. That's it. anything less and it would be nothing. The upper half pay 97%. The top 5% pay 57%."
 
You dont mention wealth allocation. If the top 5% have 90% of the wealth (dont know exact numbers) it would only make sense for them to pay their share in taxes. The lower half of Americans down own much and thus shouldnt be expected to pay as much as the rich. And of course this only considers federal income taxes, not all taxes paid. The lower half of society pays plenty in sales tax, gas tax, state/local income tax and property taxes.
#4230 of 6098
Re: Ultra V8 axed [mr215] by louiswei
Jan 04, 2008 (11:33 am)
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 04, 2008 11:24 am)

Without a modern, refined, powerful and fuel efficient DOHC V8 Caddy can kiss goodbye trying to compete with MB, BMW and Lexus in the top end luxury sedan market. Most traditional S/7er/LS buyers wouldn't be caught dead in a car with V6 (FI or not) or an OHV V8.
#4231 of 6098
Re: Can we get back to Cadillac [mr215] by habitat1
Jan 04, 2008 (11:42 am)
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 04, 2008 11:29 am)

You dont mention wealth allocation. If the top 5% have 90% of the wealth (dont know exact numbers)
 
You can get those exact numbers by clicking on the link I provided or doing a 60 second google search yourself. The top 5% have 33% of the income, but pay 57% of the income taxes. the bottom half have 18% of the income, but only pay 3% of the income taxes. In other words, even factoring in welath, the top 5% pay over 10 times more income taxes in proportion to their income than the lower 50%.
 
As for other taxes, it is almost equally disproportionate. Liberals cite sales tax, but forget that estate taxes are ONLY paid by the wealthy. And in terms of the government funded services that are paid for by taxes, the consumption is disproportionate to the lower half.
 
Imagine if they tried to do this with a toll bridge. The first 20 folks that crossed would be free, the next 30 would pay a nickel, the next 40 would pay 50 cents, the next 8 would pay $10 and Warren Buffett and Bill Gates would pay $10,000 each. That's about the way it is. And the folks paying nothing or a nickel are complaining??
#4232 of 6098
Re: Can we get back to Cadillac [mr215] by fintail
Jan 04, 2008 (11:52 am)
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Replying to: mr215 (Jan 04, 2008 11:29 am)

Indeed, income and wealth distribution are also different. In terms of wealth, I believe the top 5% hold something like 60% of the means and the top 10% own 70%, with the bottom 80% owning 20% ...so the 'unfair' cries coming from some groups must be taken with a truckload of salt. And the distribution is becoming more skewed as time passes, I believe now it is at its greatest gap since the 20s.

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