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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Jan 03, 2008 10:16 am) |
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Replying to: rockylee (Jan 03, 2008 9:57 am) The simple fact is that, for years, Toyota and Honda have garnered the top slots in Consumer Report' reliability surveys. They earned this distinction by consistently producing reliable vehicles across the board. From the magazine's standpoint, it made sense to give their new or dramatically redesigned models a "pass" when it came to predicting reliability. This is not proof of a bias or bribery. If it has snowed on Christmas Day in Pennsylvania for the past 20 years, it is not much of a stretch to say, "We will have a white Christmas in Pennsylvania this year, too." That is not evidence of bias or a conspiracy with the manufacturers of snow blowers and sleds. If it DOESN'T snow on Christmas, that proves the folly of using the past to predict the future. Realistically, the magazine should never have given new Toyotas this "pass" in the first place. (It shouldn't do this for Honda, either.) No model should receive a reliability rating until it has been in the hands of customers, whether it comes from Honda, BMW, GM or VW. As for the "more reliable, better built domestics naturally filling the hole where a Toyota was once automatically placed" - which ones would that be? Even with Toyota's recent reliability snafus, it still ranks third among all manufacturers in the reliability survey, behind Honda and Subaru. Ford, not GM or Chrysler, is the one that has shown steady, consistent improvements, and the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ have earned top-notch reliability ratings. GM's rankings still aren't all that spectacular. |
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Replying to: grbeck (Jan 03, 2008 10:28 am) Most of GM's domestic brands are near average (see JDPower link above) except for Saturn. |
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Replying to: sls002 (Jan 03, 2008 10:35 am) How may they be biased? And then, how would that manifest itself into the CR magazine? Trying to think of scenarios. Would a GM loyalist, who also is a CR subscriber, under-report problems he/she is having with a Cadillac to be loyal to the brand? Or, would a loyalist or Cadillac fan, who also might have a relative working for GM/Cadillac, deceptively report zero problems/issues on the survey? Is this a possible way that a reader would show bias?
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 03, 2008 6:00 am) I think magazines that feature exotic cars sell because that is what many people dream about having but seldom attain. I doubt Playboy magazine would sell very well if Miss January was a slightly overweight 30-something single mother with two kids. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Jan 03, 2008 10:59 am) If CR subscribers are biased, then it stands to reason that J D Power is probably surveying biased owners too. |
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First we have those CR and non-CR subscribing car owners. The latter ones usually buy Chevys (Fords or else) and never had a single problem with them. Those supermobiles have twice gas mileage and any Japanese competitor, are twice as fast, cost half as much to maintain, never rust, lat forever and turn classic in second year of ownership. Then we have those CR owners. Those morons can't get anything right. They read all those terrible biased magazines (besides CR of course) and despite obvious of artistry of GM (Ford or else) design and UAW assembly, they happen to go for those small uncomfortable foreign cars made of cardboard. When they buy them, their engines are blowing up left and right but those people would never report it to CR. Even if they did, CR probably throws those bad import surveys away anyway, so what's the point? They are very happy to pay up the dealer for all the unnecessary maintenance. Every day they think of new schemes to deprive those superqualified fork operators at Dearborn or Flynt of their well-deserved money in the job bank for sitting and watching TV all day long. Then there is is a small minority: a very strange subgroup of CR subscribers that buys domestics. Nobody really understands them. They buy what they know is crap and then they are most eager to confirm it on the survey. Actually they probably buy it for the very opportunity to slam it in that survey. They report every single small rattle and squick - something a Honda buyer would never do. CR must be paying them some secret money for the sacrifice they make. Moreover, unlike Honda owners, they never change oil in their car, then complain about engine blowout (Honda owner would never do that). It is obvious now: those people are really something. They probably are some kind of masochists. |
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Come on guys. Can we get off this CR/JD crap. It is an unending story and every forum on GM talks about the same thing. It usually gets the forum killed. It was just announced that GM killed the new DOHC V8 days after the new mpg rules were signed. Guess they have to make severe changes to meet the new requirements. Also BMW and Mercedes are being fined for not meeting the old 2007 requirements. Will they continue to thumb their noses at the US government or do something to meet requirements? I guess they could continue building gas guzzlers and just charge the porky rich customers the fine. You know, let the everyday man make the compromises to get us out of the oil addiction and rich cats keep porking away. 
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Rather than bashing the domestic car industry we need to support their progress. I have no problem having higher expectations but what other industry has even survived against foreign competition? Electronics? Textiles? This seems to be our last stand. If we do not start to have confidence in ourselves and each other, there will be nothing left here. An attitude that anything made outside this country is better will sink us for sure. Do your homework and buy the best quality domestic models. If we send the money back to American car companies and only buy their best products, they save on recalls, have more money to improve their products, pay taxes to our government, make our economy stronger  and will keep the factories that are producing high quality cars working. I think the new CTS and DTS are beautiful. If I was a rich guy I would love to have either one.
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Replying to: imatt (Jan 03, 2008 5:16 pm) So you are right we do need to buy American...but for the right reasons. If the Americans finally get it and are putting out decent cars then we all have to forget about the cars that the Americans were building 10 years ago and look at the products they are building now. As Americans, we don't owe it to GM, Ford or Chrysler to buy their car just because. But we do need to not exclude the American cars just because they are American. If you are in the market for a car, then stop by the American dealers to have a look. If you are in the market for an Accord or Camry level vehicle, then look at the Mailbu as well. If you are in the market for a G35 or a TL or a 3 Series, then include the Cadillac CTS in the running. And if the American car is really nice against the competitors, then buy it. Since this is a Cadillac forum, lets talk about Cadillac a little: I have been driving a truck for many years. IN the market for a new sedan. So I have spent alot of time looking at mid range sedans like the G35 TL, 3 Series and Cadillac CTS, and frankly, Personally, IMHO, I'm impressed with the new 2008 Cadilly CTS. The car looks sharp. Very little not to like. I want to buy an entry level luxury sedan. Really if I can only afford a Honda Camry or Mailbu then I will just buy the most practical. Its just transportation. But for something a little fun, a little more upscale? Here is my short list: 1) The G35 is really nice and is still on my short short list. Fast, great handling and best price in its class. But still it does not have the presence of the CTS. Just doesn't. So its a tough decision. Better performance on the G35 against a quieter ride and more presence of the CTS. 2) The TL is OK, Honda quality and all... but kinda boring and old in the tooth when compared to the 2008 CTS. And I prefer the rear-wheel drive for a sports sedan. 3)The 3 Series is and always will be a BMW. Obviously the ratings are high. Driving dynamics second to none. Theres the chance that when I drive it on decision day, that I will just fall under its spell? But fact is, the 3 Series sedan looks on the small side compared to the CTS. I mean, if I were still in my 20's, I probably would get the 3 Series. But for guys in their 30's and 40's, the CTS is just more of a car. For guys in their 30's and 40's driving a 3 Series, IMHO, it looks like you wanted a BMW and just couldn't afford the 5 Series. Sorry if that offends anyone. Lets put it this way. If you have to pick up an important client at the airport, the CTS is just more of a car that the 3 series. As many of the reviews say, the CTS competes against the 3 series in price, but is more the size of the 5 series. Thats a pretty accurate view. 4) The 2008 Cadillac CTS is pretty impressive from both the exterior and the interior. Looks like a $50,000 car. The interior is hands down the best of all four of these cars. And great performance, no not quite as good as the 3 Series or the G35, but close enough for me. I will probably trade that little extra performance edge for a quiet nice all around ride. Just looks more expensive that any of the other cars I listed. GM did a nice job. All of these cars have something good to offer. Something extraordinary that the others don't have. But the point is that the CTS, no doubt, has what it takes to compete. So on that Saturday afternoon, when you go out with an itch to buy an entry level luxury sedan, stop by all the dealerships including the Cadillac dealer with an open mind. And then buy the car you like the best. |
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