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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: rockylee (Jan 03, 2008 9:57 am)  There are so many other choices. Even if their conspiracy to taut Toyota fell apart, they still could choose tons of imports before admitting something domestic being most reliable and recommended. I mean - if there is a real vast anti-domestic conspiracy (is it right wing or left wing?), as you would like us to believe. Or - is it just anti-GM? Wow - what did GM do to all these milions people who dare to refuse to buy their most wondeful product? Or lets narrow it - what did they do to media and CR that Ford gets a pass now and they still can't? I just can't stop wondering... Oh - I have an idea! Perhaps their product is not so great, after all. No - that is impossible. GM has always performed to best of its ability, both in design and manufacturing (with huge help of UAW, of course). And we know their best is the worlds best. It's in the Constitution. So it must be something else... |
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Replying to: sls002 (Jan 03, 2008 9:16 am) So for "under-reporting", then Hondas and Lexi are probably actually better than CR indicates. Maybe these cars should have a higher, more magnificent color schemes than red circles. 
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Jan 03, 2008 10:16 am) |
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Replying to: rockylee (Jan 03, 2008 9:57 am) The simple fact is that, for years, Toyota and Honda have garnered the top slots in Consumer Report' reliability surveys. They earned this distinction by consistently producing reliable vehicles across the board. From the magazine's standpoint, it made sense to give their new or dramatically redesigned models a "pass" when it came to predicting reliability. This is not proof of a bias or bribery. If it has snowed on Christmas Day in Pennsylvania for the past 20 years, it is not much of a stretch to say, "We will have a white Christmas in Pennsylvania this year, too." That is not evidence of bias or a conspiracy with the manufacturers of snow blowers and sleds. If it DOESN'T snow on Christmas, that proves the folly of using the past to predict the future. Realistically, the magazine should never have given new Toyotas this "pass" in the first place. (It shouldn't do this for Honda, either.) No model should receive a reliability rating until it has been in the hands of customers, whether it comes from Honda, BMW, GM or VW. As for the "more reliable, better built domestics naturally filling the hole where a Toyota was once automatically placed" - which ones would that be? Even with Toyota's recent reliability snafus, it still ranks third among all manufacturers in the reliability survey, behind Honda and Subaru. Ford, not GM or Chrysler, is the one that has shown steady, consistent improvements, and the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan and Lincoln MKZ have earned top-notch reliability ratings. GM's rankings still aren't all that spectacular. |
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Replying to: grbeck (Jan 03, 2008 10:28 am) Most of GM's domestic brands are near average (see JDPower link above) except for Saturn. |
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Replying to: sls002 (Jan 03, 2008 10:35 am) How may they be biased? And then, how would that manifest itself into the CR magazine? Trying to think of scenarios. Would a GM loyalist, who also is a CR subscriber, under-report problems he/she is having with a Cadillac to be loyal to the brand? Or, would a loyalist or Cadillac fan, who also might have a relative working for GM/Cadillac, deceptively report zero problems/issues on the survey? Is this a possible way that a reader would show bias?
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Replying to: imidazol97 (Jan 03, 2008 6:00 am) I think magazines that feature exotic cars sell because that is what many people dream about having but seldom attain. I doubt Playboy magazine would sell very well if Miss January was a slightly overweight 30-something single mother with two kids. |
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Replying to: xrunner2 (Jan 03, 2008 10:59 am) If CR subscribers are biased, then it stands to reason that J D Power is probably surveying biased owners too. |
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First we have those CR and non-CR subscribing car owners. The latter ones usually buy Chevys (Fords or else) and never had a single problem with them. Those supermobiles have twice gas mileage and any Japanese competitor, are twice as fast, cost half as much to maintain, never rust, lat forever and turn classic in second year of ownership. Then we have those CR owners. Those morons can't get anything right. They read all those terrible biased magazines (besides CR of course) and despite obvious of artistry of GM (Ford or else) design and UAW assembly, they happen to go for those small uncomfortable foreign cars made of cardboard. When they buy them, their engines are blowing up left and right but those people would never report it to CR. Even if they did, CR probably throws those bad import surveys away anyway, so what's the point? They are very happy to pay up the dealer for all the unnecessary maintenance. Every day they think of new schemes to deprive those superqualified fork operators at Dearborn or Flynt of their well-deserved money in the job bank for sitting and watching TV all day long. Then there is is a small minority: a very strange subgroup of CR subscribers that buys domestics. Nobody really understands them. They buy what they know is crap and then they are most eager to confirm it on the survey. Actually they probably buy it for the very opportunity to slam it in that survey. They report every single small rattle and squick - something a Honda buyer would never do. CR must be paying them some secret money for the sacrifice they make. Moreover, unlike Honda owners, they never change oil in their car, then complain about engine blowout (Honda owner would never do that). It is obvious now: those people are really something. They probably are some kind of masochists. |
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Come on guys. Can we get off this CR/JD crap. It is an unending story and every forum on GM talks about the same thing. It usually gets the forum killed. It was just announced that GM killed the new DOHC V8 days after the new mpg rules were signed. Guess they have to make severe changes to meet the new requirements. Also BMW and Mercedes are being fined for not meeting the old 2007 requirements. Will they continue to thumb their noses at the US government or do something to meet requirements? I guess they could continue building gas guzzlers and just charge the porky rich customers the fine. You know, let the everyday man make the compromises to get us out of the oil addiction and rich cats keep porking away.
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