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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 01, 2008 4:46 am)
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Replying to: habitat1 (Jan 01, 2008 4:46 am) The black dots are CR's interpretation of the unknown number of reports from "subscribers" on those particular cars. Their interpretation is viewed in the lense of their opinion of the car to start with. Also the reports are not from a random survey. They are somewhat like telephone call in polls on Channel 12 about topics where people call in or don't call in depending on their motivation and emotion on the topic. One thing that seems to be consistent is that there is little difference among the problem numbers of cars in the top half of the surveys of JD Powers or CR. There used to be a statistical, meaningful difference, but that's no longer true. You're as likely to have more problems than average with one car as you might with another car; and you're likely to have fewer problems. |
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Replying to: marsha7 (Dec 31, 2007 2:08 pm) HO northstar base northstar |
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Replying to: sls002 (Jan 01, 2008 9:50 am) Moreover, their trim info is simply crap, especially on smaller brands/low volume trims. One of the fastest cars in its class (Subaru Legacy GT) has data lumped together with its basic engine version (that is not so hot, admittedly) and then represented as two circles. Yet - the website selection is done in such a way that it suggest that the data was unique to the fast trim (you choose brand/model/trim and then results show up). This is not even zero value - it's simply misleading. The data gathering procedures may be scientific, but their surveys are designed and processed by (lets be civil here)... people who know nothing about cars. And, by the way I also got several of surveys from them (not on cars - on house and appliances). Responded to some, did not to others. Same as in CR's subscribers. Both surveys have their flaws. CRs may be pool of the surveyed (however, with large volume brands I trully doubt it is a real problem), but JD Power has MAJOR issues with their survey structure and processing procedures. I have seen questionnaires from both. CRs has a single focus on reliability (as what breaks and how often), leaving the car design rating up to its staff reviewers (who do have their preferences - which happen to be very different than mine, btw), JD Power's is about "everything" - which wouldn't be wrong if they did not lump it later as "quality rating". As a result I look at my own impressions and magazines for all the subjective criteria (design, ride) and performance, then I look at CR for guidance about utility and little details that might drive you nuts (like cargo space design, console ergonomics, etc.) and possible issues to assess possible upkeep cost. Then I would look at websites for hard data like gas mileage, acceleration, etc. As mentioned, JD Power may factor in only as "people seem to like Buicks and Lexi" - but I'm not people, so JD Power is really minor value to me.
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Replying to: dino001 (Jan 01, 2008 12:54 pm) I filled out at least three different questionaires on my 2007 SRX. |
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Replying to: sls002 (Jan 01, 2008 3:10 pm)  . If anything JP Power is useful for it is capturing general brand impressions (call it satisfaction) of those new car owners within first few years of ownership and perhaps some good info about the warranty work rate. However, when it comes to detailed ratings for particular trim levels, they turn into crap, as I showed above. There is no use in results that lump results of different trims, yet pretend that those are actually unique to the one you are considering - especially if trims are very different from each other.
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Replying to: dino001 (Jan 02, 2008 7:26 am) I am not suggesting that Consumer Reports information is totally useless. I think that one can look through the last several years of information and see what kinds of problems CR subscribers have had with their cars. This is not always consistent from year to year though, so trying to pick the best car is not easy. When I needed to replace a dishwasher, I realized that I did not really know anything about dishwashers, so I went to the library to look through Consumers Reports to see what I could find. I also talked to a reputable store's salesperson and found that what he said and what CR said were opposite. I finally decided CR was useless. |
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Replying to: dino001 (Jan 02, 2008 7:26 am) Not all cars or model years have all the JD Power ratings listed at Edmunds, so your ride may not be included.
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folks keep cars longer than 3 years, I would think that a 3 year record of dependability would give a good indication of what the vehicle is made of... After all, in three years, there is usually enough time for the owner to screw something up by not maintaining it, such as oil changes or other items...stuff that would never show up in 90 days... 90 days, however, would be good to expose those vehicles made or built so poorly, that the 90 day period is anough for folks to avoid them like the plague...after all, if too much breaks in 90 days, we have a major problem... 3 years is, at least, a reasonbale time for many things to break down, things that should last 50-100K miles...is it perfect???...no, but if engines and trannies are blowing, and brakes are failing, all in 3 years, that, too, does indicate something... YMMV... |
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Replying to: rockylee (Dec 31, 2007 10:06 am) I don't think that CR is far-fetched at all. I have subscribed to CR as well as Car and Driver, Road and Track, Autoweek, etc for many years. While it is true that the car magazines put a heavier emphasis on handling/performance than does CR, there is much commonality in reporting of the attributes of vehicles and test findings between all of these magazines. CR's take on vehicles is pretty much in line with the car magazines. And, CR's rank ordering of vehicles generally follows the comparos in Car and Driver and other car magazines. When GM, Cadillac and other American brands produce vehicles that beat the leading foreign brands, CR will report accordingly.
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