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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Check to see if it has glass headlights. The 2000/2001 Saab 9-5s do. The newer ones have plastic that is shaped the same. Also check out the sills between the doors(the uprights/pillars) - it used to be anodized aluminum or painted steel. Now it's plastic. GM *and* Ford seem to know how to bean-counter all of the quality and ergonomics out of anything they touch. Like a big evil sponge. As long as there's more plastic than wood and cloth(leather seats don't count here as any maker can add them) in the interior, Cadillac doesn't get my vote. Not anymore. Plain and simple - plastic is cheap and NOT luxury. |
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Replying to: rockylee (Nov 27, 2006 12:51 pm) Interesting rant, Rocky, for someone who has been defending Lincoln against Cadillac on the Lincoln board. But anyway, I have owned both. had a 99 navigator, an 02 escalade, and then an 03 navigator. Comparing the 02 Escalade to the 03 Navigator yielded an opinion that both trucks have different strengths. My Escalade had better climate control, more responsive and accurate, horrible navigation, downright useless. A smaller second seat area, and that damn folding 3rd seat that just flipped up, taking 25% of your luggage room. I traded it for the 03 Navigator because of the beautiful unique interior, the cooled seats, the independent rear suspension which made it ride so much better, wasn't impressed with the power running boards, so didn't get them, but the power folding 3rd row seats clinched the deal. The Escalade only had more power when towing, otherwise the 6.0L engine is kind of a dog off the line, and the Navigator felt stronger, drove better, and was much more technologically advanced, and Rocky, it had the gadgets that you love. Like the power liftgate. GM usually catches up with Ford and the Imports eventually, and they finally made some good strides this year, which I think puts their truck on par with the Navigator. They do have the back up camera, good Navigation finally, and a more peppy engine and the interior is nice, even though it's still just like a Tahoe, whereas the Navigator is unique. But they just can't get on board with the 3rd row seats, even though Ford figured it out on their Explorer 4 years ago. Between the two now, I would call it an even fight.
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Replying to: nvbanker (Nov 27, 2006 5:59 pm) 
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NO. Ain't gonna happen again for Cadillac. They've given up way too much ground to Lexus, BMW and Mercedes. Mercedes blew Cadillac out of the water in the 80's and BMW and Lexus have do so in the 90's till now. Cadillac doesn't have a flagship sedan to compete with the S-Class or Lexus LS. Most import luxury car buyers don't even consider Cadillac as one of their choices anymore. Cadillac has some nice cars for sure, particularly the V models, but you can't be a standard of the world when you're only really hot in a few markets and/or not even #1 in your home market. M
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Replying to: merc1 (Nov 27, 2006 7:30 pm) |
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Replying to: merc1 (Nov 27, 2006 7:30 pm)
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Replying to: aldw (Nov 27, 2006 8:42 pm) GM is notorious for chasing a moving target while at the same time not concentrating on the real details. M |
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Replying to: nvbanker (Nov 27, 2006 5:59 pm)  The Navigator, does have a few features not found in the Escalade, but the same can be said about the Escalade vs. Navigator. The Mercedes GL 450, is no doubt a nice SUV, but even it doesn't have the interior design, quality, gadgetry the Escalade, offers to its customers. It is more of a Status SUV, and one has to click the option box several times before you get into Escalade levels in equipment. I also raise eyebrows to the Mercedes supposed 335 hp engine running Escalade 0-60 times identical to the 403 hp. Slade. I personally think the Merc test was done with a stop watch, and the guy holding the stop watched clicked the button a bit prematurely like at 50 mph or they secretly used a Chip or programmer for the the Merc. WHATEVER, it just doesn't add up to me and I wouldn't put it passed Motor Trends anti-gm staff.  I also will comment on some posters cheap shots at the UAW workers. Again, as a reminder when did the UAW assume responsibility for designing or engineering of GM vehicals ??????? I'm still waiting for my answer.  I also take the UAW workers not caring about the building of the vehicals with the tools, machinery, given to them as a insult because my family did/do care, and did the best job they could. So my point is this..... Lincoln and Cadillac, are turning their brands around. The Lincoln MKZ, no doubt will be a sales success and with a bit more more that is rumored to come in a couple of years will no doubt help it out. I also think Lincoln, needs to give customers a manual transmission option for the MKZ. The Lincoln MKS concept is a beauty. If it looks like the concept and if the rumors are true that Lincoln, is exploring even more gadgets to add the the already gadget filled MKS, we could have a benchmark if Lincoln adds that 3.7 Twin Turbo with over 350+ hp. It might not be as great as lets say a Lexus LS, or a Audi A8, in some peoples eyes but it will win plenty of consumers because it will offer the customer a premium value. The value concept started by Acura, has made that brand a winner. Acura, made a blunder by not giving the RL, competitive performance and did leave the 6-speed automatic and ventilated seats out of the equation. Cadillac, has a chance to not only topple what the MKZ, does well with the CTS, but they have a chance to pass by BMW's 335i. If I was GM, I'd take the Direct Injection 3.6 High Feature V-6 and add two turbo's to it. They already have made this engine and tested it in the Velite. The BMW 335i run 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. I'd make sure the CTS, does it in 4.7-4.8 range and pulls a .90 minimum on the skid pad. If GM, has to charge BMW 335i prices on a fully optioned CTS, to be the new benchmark then that is what they need to shoot for. The 2008' from what we've seen appears to have a much better interior. It now just needs the gadgets like ventilated seats, Mega-Watt DVD-Audio, voice recognition system w/ Navi, and perhaps a pre-collision, adaptive cruise, etc etc etc. The next STS, flat out needs a better quality interior and about 80 more horsepower. It also could use some more gadgets if they want to charge $60+K large ones. The DTS, needs RWD and needs to be in long wheel-base trim only. It needs to be a big-body and give the customer bigger than Mercedes S-class interior volume with reclining rear seats with heat, massage, ventilation. It also needs some more gadgetry and should chase Mercedes, Lexus big sedans. The SRX, is finally getting some much needed upgrades. It needs a shot of steroids, some more gadgetry, and it will blow the MKX, away in sales. The XLR, needs to be overhauled and GM, needs to take the Mercedes SL, and make the XLR, exceed every area of advantage the SL, has over it or otherwise they might as well scrap this idea. How bout adding a 6-speed manual option or F-1 inspired Paddle shifters with 500-600 horsepower ? The XLR, also needs to tone down those sharp edges since its more likely a conservative buyer will be cross shopping it with the SL. Rocky P.S. NV, you know you bought the Navigator, because of the power running boards. Well thats the conclusion I got when reading about the 07' Navigator, and the former owners trading down from a Slade to a Gator. Oops, as lemko, said it might of been this years case was the consumers wanted those retro instrument gauges. 
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Replying to: thomasw (Nov 27, 2006 1:44 pm) Isn't the bible that some of you consumers think it is. Whatever, we won't kick this dead horse again. Rocky
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