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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: laurasdada (Dec 26, 2007 11:11 am)
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Replying to: laurasdada (Dec 26, 2007 11:11 am) I understand the frustration of anyone who had problems with a particular model but I do find that people have nothing but excuses when their German or Japanese car is less than perfect but have no toleration of any difficulties with a GM product. GM has been turning it around for a while now and with a few exceptions (Aztec) they havent released many total duds in a while. I would say the changes became evident in the late 90s when models like the '98 STS, C5 vette and Olds Intrigue came on the scene. We are seeing more complete vehicles now than ever, but its not like they havent fielded anything competitive in decades. |
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Replying to: sls002 (Dec 26, 2007 11:24 am) The SRX has one of the best interiors in its segment. It shames the M class in pics and in person. The DTS is also very nice. The STS has high quality materials but the center stack is a little dull and features too much plastic. The wood and leather is top notch. Also, if you havent already check out pics of the Escalade Platinum, the interior is first rate with real woodgrain. The XLR is dated and needs some revision and the base Escalade should have real wood on the console but aside from that I think Cadillac interiors are fine.
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Replying to: mrsyj (Dec 26, 2007 10:17 am) Spare me. Most recalls these days are for issues that havent even caused any accidents. You're acting like the recall is for failed brakes. So are you saying its ok for their new cars to have to go back to the dealer for any type of glitch? I say NO. That's the problem right there. There should be no glitches and no excuses. "oh, it's just a little problem. It won't cause an accident." That's inexcusable when the topic of the thread is can Caddy become "Standard of the World." That's why GM sales took a hit and Toyota took so much market share. Too lackluster when it comes to putting out quality cars. . Again, Toyota has recalled more vehicles than GM in recent years but I doubt you would hesitate to purchase a Lexus. Are we getting personal? What's wrong? You don't know how to debate an issue without going after personal tastes and preferences to get your point across? Come on now. thought you were better than that. Let's not go there. if you really want to know what cars i drive personally, go to my carspace page. Now, as far as Toyota recalls, their reputation over the years hs kept them in good standing with car owners. But if it continues I'm sure their reputation will take a hit. GM has had negative press for more than a decade? That's the difference. When GM was doing bad, Toyota was doing well. Recalls come from nearly every manufacturer in the US market, they are hardly unique to GM nor does GM lead the industry in recalls. Problems are not unique to 1st year vehicles and a quick look at CR's detailed results in their auto issue will comfirm that. Problems may decrease after the first year but they do not disappear. If that were the case all 3rd year vehicles would be 100% reliable across the board and that isnt the case. Sounds like excuses. It shouldn't matter if other manufacturers have recalls. The goal should be ZERO RECALLS.
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Replying to: mrsyj (Dec 26, 2007 10:20 am) for those who really dont want a GM product any "bad news" will convince them to stay away while similar news from MB or Lexus would barely get their attention. I love it when people say foreign brands can "afford" to have bad quality news because they have such reputations. Incorrect assumption. In the 90's, the cheaper Lexus LS stole market share from the Mercedes S Class because the Merc had quality issues and relaibility problems. There were fierce debates between Lexus & Mercedes about which car was better right here on Edmunds. Toyota has had numerous issues in recent years (some havent yet led to recalls) and yet there is no one calling for consumers to abandon them. Not yet, but I guarantee you if they persist and are not addressed there will be. Reliability is what got Toyota where they are, and reliability might be their downfall. I fail to see how its more tolerable for a company like Toyota or Mercedes to have declining quality just because they used to have top notch quality and yet people have so little patience with domestic products even though every reputable source says American quality continues to improve. But you said the CTS sales are up YTD. What more do want? 
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Replying to: trimaster (Dec 26, 2007 11:49 am) That's why GM sales took a hit and Toyota took so much market share. Too lackluster when it comes to putting out quality cars. " Just saying recalls are issued for numerous reasons, not all of them serious. Toyota has been issuing them left and right in the past year or so. GM lost share for MANY reasons. To blame it all on quality is shortsighted. Toyota gained share for many reasons, the primary one being that they have expanded their lineup over the last 50 years and now compete in every single segment in this market. If you compared Toyota's 2007 sakes with its 1987 sales and subtracted all the vehicles that werent available in 1987 their share gains wouldnt be all that impressive. The early leaders in any segment have the most to lose when competition heats up. Same applies to chrysler and minivans. Their share was much higher when they had the market to themselves. "Are we getting personal? What's wrong? You don't know how to debate an issue without going after personal tastes and preferences to get your point across? Come on now. thought you were better than that. Let's not go there. if you really want to know what cars i drive personally, go to my carspace page. " i'm a little confused as to why you are getting offended. I said nothing "persona", I could have substituted "people" for you. In other words most people wouldnt be skeptical of buying a Lexus in spite of the rash of recent Toyota quality issues but when GM issues a recall its like the end of the world. "GM has had negative press for more than a decade? That's the difference. When GM was doing bad, Toyota was doing well. " sales numbers totally contradict that argument. 10 years ago GM was making more money and had far more share than they have now. Conversely Toyota had less share a decade ago. GM was doing pretty well before the 2001 recession hit and they started piling on incentives and saw their SUVs fall out of favor due to increased gas prices. GM was doing OK from the mid 90s until the early 2000s. Toyota's share has only recently hit the 16% mark- 10 or 20 years ago when GM quality was supposedly horrible Toyota was nowhere near 16% share. "Sounds like excuses. It shouldn't matter if other manufacturers have recalls. The goal should be ZERO RECALLS. " Obviously that is every automaker's goal. None have achieved it however, not even Toyota. The recalls today are actually minor compared to what they used to be. The majority of them arent even related to issues that have caused injury or death. Not sure how you can prove that GM doesnt aim for ZERO RECALLS. |
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Replying to: mrsyj (Dec 26, 2007 11:41 am) Amen. Good point. |
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Replying to: trimaster (Dec 26, 2007 12:03 pm) dont think so. First of all I cant see Toyota letting their quality fall too far before making changes. Furthermore the press is conditioned to make excuses for foreign brands and thus faults that get major negative commentary on domestic vehicles barely get mentioned on foreign vehicles. Toyota has been turning out some of the cheapest looking interiors on the market recently and there has been minimal reaction from the press. Meanwhile GM and Chrysler interiors would be ripped for coming to market with the same designs and materials. Most buyers I know are the same way, they see any problem with a foreign car as an anomaly and would never hesitate to buy another. If a domestic car has a check engine light come on they will be ready to trade it in for a Toyota ASAP. People of a certain age in this country have been conditioned to nearly worship foreign engineering for a long time and they refuse to believe that American cars arent as inferior as they have thought for the last 30+ years. Its incredible how many import loyalists will bash current domestics and then tell you in the next breath that they havent owned a domestic vehicle since the 80s but they are sure quality is the same now as it was then. You cant base a decision about ANYTHING on what happened 25 years ago.
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Replying to: mrsyj (Dec 26, 2007 12:54 pm) One big reason was that the econoboxes were, well, economical to operate if you didn't mind a small car with a small motor and minimal accountrements that got great gas mileage compared to small car offerings from the US brands of the time. I still recall giving one coworker rides to work when is Rabbit VW didn't hippity-hop to work. But when it ran, he saved a whole bunch of money. That was late 70s or early 80s. |
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Replying to: mrsyj (Dec 26, 2007 11:41 am) Well, the problem for me/family, is that in the last 30 years we've really had no issues with Japanese cars. That said, in my sales days, besides the aforementioned Olds, I had a Mercury Sable and Dodge Intrepid company cars. The Sable was fine as was the Dodge. What was noticeable in both, compared to my personal cars (Nissan, Saab Lexus) was lesser build quality (moreso the Intrepid) & interior materials, floatier rides and noisier. But no reliablity issues that I can really recall. Interestingly, though my company started phasing out domestic co. cars and phasing in Japanese... I liked the Intrepid enough to let me buy a '99 Chrysler 300M with less trepidation, a car I thoroughly enjoyed. Lousy exterior build quality, though. But, it was a Chrysler!  Still may buy an '06 XLR, if I can get it for less than 50% of msrp. But, that's still in the same $ neighborhood of new BMW 3 converts, among others...
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