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Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News
#3983 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [mrsyj]
Dec 25, 2007 (9:12 pm)
Since its been on sale the 2008 CTS has outsold the C class, TL, IS, A4 and G35. I would say the car s doing just fine and will continue to do so....Read some of the consumer reviews right here on this site, many owners have traded in European cars.
Would you be so kind to post a link to back this up?
I did a little research and this is what I discovered: (sorry about the spacing and layout.)
GM Car Deliveries - (United States)
April January - April
2007 2006 per S/D 2007 2006 %Chg
CTS 4,644 4,612 9.1 15,410 17,913 -14.0
DeVille 40 73 -40.6 71 509 -86.1
DTS 3,707 4,003 0.3 14,654 18,886 -22.4
Seville 0 0 ---.- 0 9 ---.-
STS 1,815 2,088 -5.8 6,249 7,713 -19.0
XLR 168 320 -43.1 633 1,186 -46.6
Cadillac Total 10,374 11,096 1.3 37,017 46,216 -19.9
As of April 2007 sales for all Caddy models were down year to date as illustrated by the numbers on the far right.
Here are Mercedes' numbers for the same time frame:
MONTVALE, N.J., May 1, 2007 -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today reported April sales of 20,895 new vehicles; the second best April ever (after April 2006 with sales of 21,270). This represents the best-ever year-to-date sales volume, bringing the total to 76,880 new vehicles for 2007 - a six percent increase over sales during the same period in 2006.
Model '07 '06 % 2007 2006 Yearly%
C-CLASS 5,131 4,037 27.1% 17,413 14,017 24.2%
E-CLASS 4,011 3,778 6.2% 14,458 12,437 16.2%
S-CLASS 2,067 3,033 -31.8% 8,713 10,651 -18.2%
SL-CLASS 703 1,112 -36.8% 2,098 2,953 -29.0%
As of April, the more C Class cars (5,131) were sold than the CTS (4,644.) 2007 YTD CTS sales were DOWN 14% while the C Class sales were UP 24.2%.
I know this is April sales info, but unfortunately I couldn't find any recent info on Caddy sales. However, I did find this on November Mercedes sales:
Mercedes-Benz Records Best November Sales Ever
MONTVALE, N.J., Dec. 3 -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) achieved its highest November sales volume on record with 22,819 units sold for the month, a 3.4 percent increase over last November's 22,079 record volume. This brings MBUSA's year-to-date sales total to 225,904 units - a 2.8 percent increase over the same period last year - which keeps Mercedes-Benz on track for accomplishing its 14th consecutive year of annual sales growth.
Sales of the Mercedes-Benz C-Class rose 56 percent (6,920 units vs. 4,435 units) for the month, and 26.3 percent compared to last year's year-to-date results (56,802 vs. 44,990).
Model Nov. '07 Nov. '06 Monthly % YTD 2007 YTD 2006 Yearly %
C-CLASS 6,920 4,435 56.0% 56,802 44,990 26.3%
The CTS is a nice car no doubt, and it was rated higher then the C Class on a review from this very site, but sales numbers don't lie. The C Class is selling more than the CTS and Merc is having ANOTHER record year.
#3984 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [trimaster]
Dec 26, 2007 (5:21 am)
"I never said they wouldn't. You asked me for reasons why some wouldn't buy the CTS and get the C instead and I gave you some. What's the problem? "
I believe someone else asked for those reasons. I wouldnt but the C class so I don't need any reasons why its supposedly superior. The C class isnt superior on any objective level. Not that its not a nice car.
"The car is the size of an E and 5, but priced like the 3 and C and compared to them also. I wonder how the CTS would fare if it were PRICED like the E and 5? We'll never know, but my guess would be sales would drop. "
The STS is priced closer to the E and 5 but its still cheaper. BMW and MB are the only two luxury brands that can get away with such outrageous pricing. Infinitis, Audis, Acuras and Lexus models are all "bargain" priced compared to those German brands. Its not like Cadillac is the only one offering more car for less money. I wonder how the G35 would do if it was priced like the 5 series or E class. My guess is sales would drop.
"I'm not so sure about that. The 1st Edmund's review on the CTS had it dead last against the Acura 3.2, Audi A4, BMW 330i, and G35. "
Not winning a comparo (on Edmunds of all places) isnt the same as getting bad reviews. The new CTS lost a recent Edmunds comparo and that doesnt mean they didnt like the car. BTW, the last CTS beat 7 other cars in a R&T comparo in 2004. Cadillacs have been getting good reviews in general fo years now, this is not something that just happened overnight. As for edmunds, there arent many domestic vehicles they like and domestics never win comparos in Edmunds so I'm not sure they are the most accurate barometer of how well Cadillac is doing.
"Their parent company had been rumored to go bankrupt due to quality issues in recent years. "
the bankruptcy talk was generated by the media, GM never said it was close to declaring bankruptcy. Even if they were, vehicle quality was far from the main reason for Gm's troubles. GM has one of the higher customer loyalty rates in the industry. That would be hard to do if all your vehicles were falling apart.
"The CTS is doing well and I'm glad, but it's only 1 model. They are trying to regain their image of being a top luxury car but as a whole they are still considered behind Merc, Lexus and BMW. The CTS is a good start, but in order to play with the Big Dogs, they need to have a car to rival the S, 7 and LS, a car to rival the SL and Bimmer Roadsters. Hopefully it's coming. "
Not sure who considers Cadillac lower than Lexus, but I wouldnt say enthusiasts agree with that. Lexus is near the bottom of the pack in terms of driving enthusiasts but it is very popular amongst aging boomers which is why Lexus is the top selling brand. Ironically, people like you will be quick to point out that Cadillac isnt established around the world but the same thing applies to Lexus. People have been deriding Cadillac for years for not making BMW wannabe sedans and yet Lexus has proven that many luxury customers dont want that.
As for the SL, the XLR is competition for the SL. It's not a better car, but its a legit contender based on style, performance and price. I wouldnt say the CTS is only one model, the Escalade has been very successful and of course the DTS is still a strong seller. The SRX has been well received by the press but hasnt acheived sales success for some reason. Same for the STS to a lesser extent although the revised 2008 model is doing a little better. As for all of this MB success, Cadillac outsold MB until about 2001 or 2002, MB has only recently hit the big sales numbers we've seen in the US. Even so, they have peaked an BMW and Lexus are ahead of them. Next year with a full year of CTS sales it is very possible that Cadillac will overtake MB in the US.
#3985 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [trimaster]
Dec 26, 2007 (5:28 am)
I had not seen C class sales data, you are correct about the C. I never said anything about the rest of MB's lineup however. The CTS still outsold the other cars I named. In november sales were up 55% to about 5500 units. MB's lineup continues to expand and its unsurprising that they continue to see record sales here in the US. They have 7 car lines and 3 truck lines and their sales reflect that. Cadillac has no competitor for the SLK, S class, CLK or CLS and that is part of the sales story.
#3986 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [trimaster]
Dec 26, 2007 (5:30 am)
"That's the last thing they need at this crucial point. Hopefully they can get this problem fixed and it'll be the only problem for the CTS. "
recall mentiones 2007 CTS, not new model. Toyota has had far more recalls than GM recently so I don't think a recall is cause for alarm with regards to GM quality. Everyone is recalling these days.
#3987 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [louiswei]
Dec 26, 2007 (5:32 am)
"That's just too bad... "
why is that? Lexus has done the German car copy theme for the last 18 years. I see no reason for Cadillac to do the same. If Cadillac went conservative and copied the GErmans people would complain. If Cadillac comes up with their own aggressivem unique style then German car fans are turned off because they feel all luxury cars should look the same. For those that hate GM and the American auto industry there is nothing Cadillac can do to win their favor.
#3988 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [laurasdada]
Dec 26, 2007 (5:41 am)
"And personally, two GM cars in my family in the '90s: one (Catera) was in the shop more than any several cars combined that my father owned. "
the Catera was an import from Germany. Lets not get into anecdotal stories because I can name two long lasting domestic vehicles for each of your horror stories. Naturally I suppose you have NEVER heard of a foreign car with reliability issues. I find this is always the case with people who swear all american cars break down at 50k miles. I dont have to look hard to find accounts of imports that have been less than perfect. BTW, the 90s started nearly 18 years ago- a lot can change in this industry in 18 years. I don't know if I would buy a GM product in 1990, but I would now.
marketshare? It is simplistic to relate all of GM's marketshare losses to quality. You have to ignore an awful lot of facts to make that claim. In the 80s companies like MB and BMW mainly competed on the high end, especially MB. In 2007 almost every foreign automaker has a full linuep from compacts to pickup trucks. This wasnt the case in the 70s and 80s and part of the 90s. Detroit had a lot of share by default until the competiton entered every single niche in the automarket. On top of that brands like Scion, Hyundai and Kia didnt even exist 20-25 years ago. The marketshare of the leaders is going to decline when new companies enter the marketsplace giving the customer more options.
GM has far more share in the US than MB has in Europe. If MB and BMW quality is so superior I would love to know why those brands dont command a 20% or 30% share in their home market. competition leads to a fractured market which is what they have in Europe.
"But that recall I (and others have) noted here, to most folks is SNAFU for GM. And that has to stop. "
Here is the thing, in spite of GM's stumbles they sell more vehicles than anyone else. They are still ahead of Toyota in the US by more than a million units which is significant considering how much Toyota has grown. I wouldnt say that "most" people believe that GM cant make a quality vehicle. At the end of the day far more people chose not to buy MB, BMW or Honda than chose to not buy a GM product. Toyota has 16% share which means that 84% of Americans dont want a Toyota. I doubt you would say that stat means that most Americans are skeptical about Toyota quality and engineering.
#3989 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [laurasdada]
Dec 26, 2007 (7:42 am)
I think GM's market share in the 60's (which is when GM's market share was high) was due to two prime factors: 1) they did have better quality than Chrysler; 2) there were very few imports of consequence. I think GM's share was greater because they had 5 divisions to soak up the market share that might have gone to Ford.
In the period of time around 1980, GM did make a number of blunders that lowered quality. The Catera was a German import though. The reliability of the Mercedes 600 was noexistent - it was/is a total unreliable car, when it is working (for a day or so at a time), it is a wonderful car, but it is worse for repairs than an old Jag.
When the Japanese started to invade the US market, they knew that the American impression of Japanese products was that of the carnival trinkets. They knew that if they were to be successful they were going to have to have a quality product. GM's management foolishly thought noone could possibly catch up, and it took about two decades (from about 1975 to 1995) for GM to actually decline enough to get serious attention.
The Ford Pinto fuel tank was probably the worst for endangering peoples lives.
#3990 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [mrsyj]
Dec 26, 2007 (7:56 am)
I disagree with this statement only because it needs to be corrected as I have:
"For those that hate GM and the American auto industry there is nothing Cadillac can do to win their favor. "
"For those that hate GM and the American auto industry there is nothing GM can do to win their favor."
To wit the statements here that GM has had nothing but bad cars for 30 years. Gimme a break.
1977 Cutlasss Supreme Brogham (Tan over dark brown) 350 4-barrel, great car
1980 Cutlass Supreme Brougham (Black w/ burgundy interior cloth) 260 V8 more economical
1981 Skylark 4-cyl
1985 Skyhawk OHC 4-cyl
1987 Century 4-cyl
1989 Century 3100 V6
1993 leSabre 3800 V6
1998 leSabre 3800 V6 Series II, much different motor for those who say GM used the same motor for 50 years
2003 leSabre 3800 V6 Series II, will buy another one
#3991 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [mrsyj]
Dec 26, 2007 (9:44 am)
Recall mentiones 2007 CTS, not new model. Toyota has had far more recalls than GM recently so I don't think a recall is cause for alarm with regards to GM quality. Everyone is recalling these days.
Just because "everyone" is recalling makes it OK for GM to have them also. Kinda reminds me of that old saying; if your friends jump off a bridge would you do it also?
Recalls for the 2007 model is NOT a good thing. That's the last year of the product cycle and they were still having problems with it? The logic is the 1st year or 2 of the new style has quality issues, and the last year should have all the kinks worked out. There's no excuse for the 2007 model to have any issues.
#3992 of 6195 Re: Road & Track comparison [trimaster]
Dec 26, 2007 (9:56 am)
A "recall" is bad publicity. However, they did not recall the 2004 models, which suggests that they changed something in 2005. The recall release says that more seals were failing than normal, which means that a certain number were expected to fail. My 2007 SRX is not leaking yet. I expect that it will be recalled.
I really do not think that this recall proves anything.