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Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News
#3976 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [laurasdada]
Dec 25, 2007 (3:07 pm)
"General Motors has announced the recall of 276,000 vehicles. The recall is due to a faulty pinion seal, which can cause fluid leaks. The recall affects the 2005-07 Cadillac CTS, CTS-V, SRX, STS and STS-V; 2006-07 Pontiac Solstice; and 2007 Saturn Sky. "
That's the last thing they need at this crucial point. Hopefully they can get this problem fixed and it'll be the only problem for the CTS.
I personally think the new CTS is a quantum leap above the prior version in terms of style. Not a fan of the front end, but they've done a nice job of cleaning up a bunch of the superfluous, overdone lines and shapes. And the prior CTS had possibly the worst interior style/materials that I"ve seen on a "Premium" car. The new interior works for me.
I like it too. I think it looks great! They did a good job with this car IMO.
Same issue with the XLR. I like it and am considering buying a used one as a toy. But the interior style and material appearance, and more importantly, the much too highg msrp spelled disappointing sales for the XLR from the get-go.
I like the looks of the car personally. But I think if they price the car lower like they did the CTS it would sell pretty well. I don't think the public is ready to pay big bucks for Caddy as of yet.
#3977 of 6186 Re: Why I buy Cadillac over Benz [lemko]
Dec 25, 2007 (3:09 pm)
A die hard Caddy Fan!
#3978 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [mrsyj]
Dec 25, 2007 (4:05 pm)
You wont mistake an STS or CTS for a GErman car.
That's just too bad...
#3979 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [mrsyj]
Dec 25, 2007 (7:08 pm)
I'll respectfully disagree. I believe that there is a fair amount of evidence that GM cars lacked the quality that consumers demanded (and found in the imports). Anecdotal proof: What was GMs market share 30 years ago vs. today. And review Consumers Report and JD Powers... And personally, two GM cars in my family in the '90s: one (Catera) was in the shop more than any several cars combined that my father owned. The Olds I I drove as a company car could have gotten me killed as it had a defective gas tank, it suddenly started profusely leaking gas from the top of the tank, thank heavens I wasn't a smoker and tossed my cigarette out the window! And, please, Roger Smith... Bean counter extrordinaire. He made 'em cheap and made 'em look/feel cheap...
Conversely, our history with Acura/Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota/Lexus and even Mercedes Benz has left nary a single quality/reliability tale to tell (although MBs are bloody expensive to maintain/repair). I'm not preaching Japanese perfection here, but our Japanese vs. our GM: night and day.
Having said all that, I posted that I think the CTS is a nice piece of work. I hope GM turns it around, a lot of good people rely on GM to earn a living. But that recall I (and others have) noted here, to most folks is SNAFU for GM. And that has to stop.
#3980 of 6186 Re: Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?? [bigo08]
Dec 25, 2007 (8:45 pm)
I'll admitt they have a start with the redesigned Escalade and the new CTS. But they need to add more standard features and improve build quality. The Escalade is the king of SUV's but the 08 Infiniti QX and Mercedes GL450 are worthy contenders.
#3981 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [laurasdada]
Dec 25, 2007 (8:49 pm)
I'll respectfully disagree. I believe that there is a fair amount of evidence that GM cars lacked the quality that consumers demanded (and found in the imports).
Very true. This is old news, but GM was well aware of the quality issues they were having:
SEPTEMBER 7, 2006
By David Kiley
GM's Big Bet on Quality
To reverse perceptions about its cars' quality, GM boldly extends its warranty coverage to five years or 100,000 miles
General Motors (GM ), battling to regain market share amid a financial battering that saw its U.S. auto business lose $10.6 billion last year, today announced an expanded warranty on all its vehicles intended to alleviate, if not remove, doubts that many consumers have about GM's quality being competitive with that of Japanese automakers.
#3982 of 6186 Re: As far as I'm concerned... [lemko]
Dec 25, 2007 (8:51 pm)
you have some valid points there.
#3983 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [mrsyj]
Dec 25, 2007 (10:12 pm)
Since its been on sale the 2008 CTS has outsold the C class, TL, IS, A4 and G35. I would say the car s doing just fine and will continue to do so....Read some of the consumer reviews right here on this site, many owners have traded in European cars.
Would you be so kind to post a link to back this up?
I did a little research and this is what I discovered: (sorry about the spacing and layout.)
GM Car Deliveries - (United States)
April January - April
2007 2006 per S/D 2007 2006 %Chg
CTS 4,644 4,612 9.1 15,410 17,913 -14.0
DeVille 40 73 -40.6 71 509 -86.1
DTS 3,707 4,003 0.3 14,654 18,886 -22.4
Seville 0 0 ---.- 0 9 ---.-
STS 1,815 2,088 -5.8 6,249 7,713 -19.0
XLR 168 320 -43.1 633 1,186 -46.6
Cadillac Total 10,374 11,096 1.3 37,017 46,216 -19.9
As of April 2007 sales for all Caddy models were down year to date as illustrated by the numbers on the far right.
Here are Mercedes' numbers for the same time frame:
MONTVALE, N.J., May 1, 2007 -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today reported April sales of 20,895 new vehicles; the second best April ever (after April 2006 with sales of 21,270). This represents the best-ever year-to-date sales volume, bringing the total to 76,880 new vehicles for 2007 - a six percent increase over sales during the same period in 2006.
Model '07 '06 % 2007 2006 Yearly%
C-CLASS 5,131 4,037 27.1% 17,413 14,017 24.2%
E-CLASS 4,011 3,778 6.2% 14,458 12,437 16.2%
S-CLASS 2,067 3,033 -31.8% 8,713 10,651 -18.2%
SL-CLASS 703 1,112 -36.8% 2,098 2,953 -29.0%
As of April, the more C Class cars (5,131) were sold than the CTS (4,644.) 2007 YTD CTS sales were DOWN 14% while the C Class sales were UP 24.2%.
I know this is April sales info, but unfortunately I couldn't find any recent info on Caddy sales. However, I did find this on November Mercedes sales:
Mercedes-Benz Records Best November Sales Ever
MONTVALE, N.J., Dec. 3 -- Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) achieved its highest November sales volume on record with 22,819 units sold for the month, a 3.4 percent increase over last November's 22,079 record volume. This brings MBUSA's year-to-date sales total to 225,904 units - a 2.8 percent increase over the same period last year - which keeps Mercedes-Benz on track for accomplishing its 14th consecutive year of annual sales growth.
Sales of the Mercedes-Benz C-Class rose 56 percent (6,920 units vs. 4,435 units) for the month, and 26.3 percent compared to last year's year-to-date results (56,802 vs. 44,990).
Model Nov. '07 Nov. '06 Monthly % YTD 2007 YTD 2006 Yearly %
C-CLASS 6,920 4,435 56.0% 56,802 44,990 26.3%
The CTS is a nice car no doubt, and it was rated higher then the C Class on a review from this very site, but sales numbers don't lie. The C Class is selling more than the CTS and Merc is having ANOTHER record year.
#3984 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [trimaster]
Dec 26, 2007 (6:21 am)
"I never said they wouldn't. You asked me for reasons why some wouldn't buy the CTS and get the C instead and I gave you some. What's the problem? "
I believe someone else asked for those reasons. I wouldnt but the C class so I don't need any reasons why its supposedly superior. The C class isnt superior on any objective level. Not that its not a nice car.
"The car is the size of an E and 5, but priced like the 3 and C and compared to them also. I wonder how the CTS would fare if it were PRICED like the E and 5? We'll never know, but my guess would be sales would drop. "
The STS is priced closer to the E and 5 but its still cheaper. BMW and MB are the only two luxury brands that can get away with such outrageous pricing. Infinitis, Audis, Acuras and Lexus models are all "bargain" priced compared to those German brands. Its not like Cadillac is the only one offering more car for less money. I wonder how the G35 would do if it was priced like the 5 series or E class. My guess is sales would drop.
"I'm not so sure about that. The 1st Edmund's review on the CTS had it dead last against the Acura 3.2, Audi A4, BMW 330i, and G35. "
Not winning a comparo (on Edmunds of all places) isnt the same as getting bad reviews. The new CTS lost a recent Edmunds comparo and that doesnt mean they didnt like the car. BTW, the last CTS beat 7 other cars in a R&T comparo in 2004. Cadillacs have been getting good reviews in general fo years now, this is not something that just happened overnight. As for edmunds, there arent many domestic vehicles they like and domestics never win comparos in Edmunds so I'm not sure they are the most accurate barometer of how well Cadillac is doing.
"Their parent company had been rumored to go bankrupt due to quality issues in recent years. "
the bankruptcy talk was generated by the media, GM never said it was close to declaring bankruptcy. Even if they were, vehicle quality was far from the main reason for Gm's troubles. GM has one of the higher customer loyalty rates in the industry. That would be hard to do if all your vehicles were falling apart.
"The CTS is doing well and I'm glad, but it's only 1 model. They are trying to regain their image of being a top luxury car but as a whole they are still considered behind Merc, Lexus and BMW. The CTS is a good start, but in order to play with the Big Dogs, they need to have a car to rival the S, 7 and LS, a car to rival the SL and Bimmer Roadsters. Hopefully it's coming. "
Not sure who considers Cadillac lower than Lexus, but I wouldnt say enthusiasts agree with that. Lexus is near the bottom of the pack in terms of driving enthusiasts but it is very popular amongst aging boomers which is why Lexus is the top selling brand. Ironically, people like you will be quick to point out that Cadillac isnt established around the world but the same thing applies to Lexus. People have been deriding Cadillac for years for not making BMW wannabe sedans and yet Lexus has proven that many luxury customers dont want that.
As for the SL, the XLR is competition for the SL. It's not a better car, but its a legit contender based on style, performance and price. I wouldnt say the CTS is only one model, the Escalade has been very successful and of course the DTS is still a strong seller. The SRX has been well received by the press but hasnt acheived sales success for some reason. Same for the STS to a lesser extent although the revised 2008 model is doing a little better. As for all of this MB success, Cadillac outsold MB until about 2001 or 2002, MB has only recently hit the big sales numbers we've seen in the US. Even so, they have peaked an BMW and Lexus are ahead of them. Next year with a full year of CTS sales it is very possible that Cadillac will overtake MB in the US.
#3985 of 6186 Re: Road & Track comparison [trimaster]
Dec 26, 2007 (6:28 am)
I had not seen C class sales data, you are correct about the C. I never said anything about the rest of MB's lineup however. The CTS still outsold the other cars I named. In november sales were up 55% to about 5500 units. MB's lineup continues to expand and its unsurprising that they continue to see record sales here in the US. They have 7 car lines and 3 truck lines and their sales reflect that. Cadillac has no competitor for the SLK, S class, CLK or CLS and that is part of the sales story.