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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

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#3900 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [62vetteefp] by habitat1 Dec 19, 2007 (8:15 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 4:27 am) If autobahn roads were built here the US companies would have made proper vehicles for them before the roads were finished.   And that's the kind of "follow rather than lead" engineering that has GM teetering on the brink of bankruptcy today. According to the History Channel program, the autobahn designers and German automotive engineerers went hand in hand to push the envelope in the 1930's. Nobody was sitting on the sideline saying "you go first".   Sorry, I cannot be an apologist for the dismal performance of the US Auto industry. GE may make world class locomotives and wind turbines, Boeing may make world class airplanes, Caterpiller and Deere may make world class heavy equipment. All by the way, with union labor. But GM isn't even close, IMO, and I'd like someone to explain the title to this forum. Just what do you define as the "world standard" in automotive engineering and when, ever, was Cadillac anywhere near that podium? At least in the last 50 years?   P.S. The orignial VW Beetle sold for $300 in the 1940's. As boxy as it looks today, it has a Cd that is 20% lower than the 2007 Pontiac Solstice, a so-called "sports car". Frankly, GM engineers haven't just sat on the sidelines, they have had their heads up their butts on more than a few occassions in the last half century or so.
#3901 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [sls002] by 62vetteefp Dec 19, 2007 (9:13 am)
Replying to: sls002 (Dec 19, 2007 7:14 am) Can somene tell me what makes the autobahn? I have driven it and it seems to me like a plain old expressway here in the states. There are straighter curves but not much difference. Probably 98% of our expressways are straight as an arrow. Our expressways have been around a long time and in my much younger years I drove it at close to 100 for long distances (radar detector and stupidity and the roads were empty on the way to Florida). Most drive at close to 85 or over now anyway.   Our country is set up differently than Europe. They started with congested cities with tiny streets and sharp corners. Their cars had to be small and nimble just to get around, even in hte middle of major cities. No choice. Here we have always had wide 2 lane roads and pretty much 4 lanes with huge corners so large vehicles could be made and were desired by the consumers. That all changed starting in the 70's of course with the fuel issues but even today consumers buy the big SUV's. Replies to this message: bumpy (Dec 19, 2007 9:31 am) 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 11:27 am) imidazol97 (Dec 19, 2007 10:17 am) fintail (Dec 19, 2007 10:30 am) fintail (Dec 19, 2007 10:32 am) sls002 (Dec 19, 2007 10:45 am) sls002 (Dec 19, 2007 10:43 am) spiritinthesky (Dec 19, 2007 12:14 pm)
#3902 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [62vetteefp] by bumpy Dec 19, 2007 (9:31 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 9:13 am) Here we have always had wide 2 lane roads and pretty much 4 lanes with huge corners so large vehicles could be made and were desired by the consumers.     No we didn't.   As for the autobahns, they are maintained to a vastly higher standard than anything on this continent, and so are the drivers. Replies to this message: 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 11:27 am)
#3903 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [62vetteefp] by imidazol97 Dec 19, 2007 (10:17 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 9:13 am) The US interstate system was planned after looking at autobahn type roads. However some people still consider only autobahn and only the specific car brands they associate with high speed autobahn driving, where there are now no limits on autobahn, and try to glamourize that small piece of the driving experience in Deutschland.   Our road system has been developed well other than going through some cities where they should have gone around the city. Replies to this message: fintail (Dec 19, 2007 10:30 am)
#3904 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [imidazol97] by fintail Dec 19, 2007 (10:30 am)
Replying to: imidazol97 (Dec 19, 2007 10:17 am) Developed not horribly, but maintained horribly. That's certainly a key difference between roads in Europe and here. I can't imagine a US interstate that compares.
#3905 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [62vetteefp] by fintail Dec 19, 2007 (10:32 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 9:13 am) The proper banking of curves is also more common there than here.   The biggest difference however is driver competency. Lane discipline. Replies to this message: sls002 (Dec 19, 2007 10:45 am)
#3906 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [62vetteefp] by sls002 Dec 19, 2007 (10:43 am)
Replying to: 62vetteefp (Dec 19, 2007 9:13 am) Autobahn is a german word for what we call our interstate system. Speed limits are a matter of what government decides. I don't think speed limits are a bad thing. In the Motor Trend article the writers had to get to an airport that was 500 miles away and they had less than 9 hours to get there. It took all of the time they had, so even though they were do more than 100 when they could, the average speed was closer to 60 MPH.
#3907 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [fintail] by sls002 Dec 19, 2007 (10:45 am)
Replying to: fintail (Dec 19, 2007 10:32 am) I think that their accident rate is somewhat worse too (which will eliminate the worst drivers eventually).
#3908 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [bumpy] by 62vetteefp Dec 19, 2007 (11:27 am)
Replying to: bumpy (Dec 19, 2007 9:31 am) Here we have always had wide 2 lane roads and pretty much 4 lanes with huge corners so large vehicles could be made and were desired by the consumers.    No we didn't.   I guess you are referring to my "have alway" statement. I guess if you look at the old, old towns like Boston, yes they have tight roadways in the city. However look pretty much anyplace but the older eastern cities, you have wide roads big enough to easily get around in large vehicles. Any cities modernized or built up in the later 19th century are that way. Chicago, LA, Detroit, Cincinnati, Phoenix, etc. Come to think of it there are some cities on the West coast that can be tight like San Francisco.   My point is that Europe in the early 20th century was/is full of old tight roads in thier cities.
#3909 of 6098 Re: Cadillac was NEVER the world standard. [habitat1] by xrunner2 Dec 19, 2007 (12:11 pm)
Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 19, 2007 4:04 am) The original VW Beetle, produced in the 1040's was a more stable and capable car at Autobahn speeds than any American made car of its time.   Any? Don't think so. One car that I have heard about from an old relative who owned one was a very limitted production Cord (1937). It was very stable at speed. Also, it was a FWD.   Didn't the original 40's beetle have swing axles in rear that made the car highly unstable? Think that there were some decent American road cars in 40's such as Hudson, Lincoln, Cadillac. Didn't these brands, in relatively stock form, do well in the Mexican road races of the 40's and 50's? Did Mercedes compete in the Mexican road races?   I would not want any interstate converted into autobahn type speed limits. Have never been to Germany, but have read many accounts of drivers (left lane and right) and their experience in handling great speed differentials. There have been spectacular accidents/crashes on the autobahn. It is bad enough already in U.S. if one is driving along in right lane at say 70 and sees someone coming up fast in left lane going perhaps 95. Just a 25 differential is undesirable for safety let alone someone on the autobahn doing 150 in left and passing someone doing 70.

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