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Automotive News & Views Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?
6098 messages, Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: sls002 (Nov 10, 2007 10:46 am) I know! Bring on the smaller BTS!!! and push the CTS up about $15-17K!!!
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I've got to go to the Cadillac dealer for an oil change for my Seville STS! Hope I don't give into temptation when I see those new CTS's!
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Replying to: jkr2106 (Nov 10, 2007 4:58 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 11, 2007 9:05 am) |
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Replying to: sls002 (Nov 11, 2007 11:24 am)
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Replying to: jkr2106 (Nov 11, 2007 1:23 pm)
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Replying to: sls002 (Nov 12, 2007 8:38 am) OK but they have to offer something to bring those BMW or Mercedes buyers over to Cadillac and keep the buyers they have. Does them little good to only sell to their current buyers.
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Replying to: sls002 (Nov 12, 2007 8:38 am) |
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Replying to: sls002 (Nov 12, 2007 8:38 am) = = = While I agree with statements 1 & 2, I disagree with #3. If Caddy does build something unique & American, I think that they CAN sell it. Particularly if the Price is Right. Even if expensive. I look to Chevy. The Corvette ( full disclosure here: I drive a 2007 Coupe ) is rather expensive, compared to most other Chevys. Yet they sell in volumes that allow GM to 1) make a profit & 2) make a GM ‘flagship’. The XLR sells in very low volumes, true enough. Yet sharing parts & platform with the Corvette allows the XLR to survive. And the XLR-v. ( And I applaud Caddy for investing the time & $$s in all the ‘v-series’ cars. ) I happen to disagree with a couple of aspects of Caddy’s approach \ direction in all but the CTS-v, however. My sense is that the ( very expensive ) STS-v and XLR-v are priced largely according to the very sophisticated and expensive powerplants under their hoods. STS-v for 2008 = approx. $76K and the XLR-v is over $97K. My opinion is that both the STS-v and the XLR-v could have been equipped with a larger, normally aspirated, simpler & cheaper motor – and would have sold much better. If they had been equipped with ( for example ) the 6.2L V8, from the 2008 Corvette – or even the 400 HP 6.0L V8 ( with 400\400 HP\TQ ) instead of the supercharged NorthStar, they would likely have had very similar acceleration and been a whole lot less expensive to develop & to produce. And to sell. That would clearly have been a large ‘step up’ from the NorthStar – at 320 \ 315 HP\TQ, and now offering barely improved acceleration compared to the new 300+ HP DI V6 available in the 2008 STS. The XLR-v, with the s/c NorthStar posts almost identical acceleration numbers to my 2007 Corvette w/automatic. (The automatic trans. is essentially identical in both cars.) For nearly $100 Grand. Though this lovely ( and expensive ) 4.4L s/c motor makes more HP and marginally more TQ than the 6.0L V8 in the Corvette, they are so close in acceleration largely due to the XLR-v’s much greater weight – 3800#+ vs the Corvette at close to 3200#. The STS-v with 469 HP and 439 TQ is a 13.2 second sedan, according to R&T’s test. I’d bet that with the current Corvette’s 430 HP & 424 TQ would be capable of a mid- to high 13 second quarter. And would feel ‘just as quick’ and \ or ‘just as fast’ to 90+% of potential buyers. And it might very well also even feel ‘more American’ than the s/c NorthStar. And these cars could then have been marketed at something like a ( clearly, I am guessing here ) $10K or more ‘discount’, compared to those ‘-v’ cars actual MSRPs. I think an STS-v at closer to $63K or $64K would have been much more likely to develop into a sales success for Caddy. At almost $75K to start, the STS-v pricing makes for difficult volume sales – even for a Caddy. Note that $63K - $64K qualifies as “very expensive”, to me. But I believe that Caddy ** COULD ** sell the STS-v in significantly higher volumes at this MSRP \ Price Point. Said another way, if GM had decided to ‘pull ahead’ development of the 6.2L V8, instead of developing that s/c & hand-built version of the NorthStar, and plug the n/a 6.2L V8 into the STS-v at launch – and the Corvette a year later, perhaps – this would have been far better received. And would have sold better. Again, I mean no disrespect to the NorthStar motor. GM’s continued development of “regular” V8s strongly suggests to me that this would have been a better, as well as cheaper, route to an STS-v and an XLR-v. And partly here again I am considering that “different, but American” aspect. And I suspect that the 6.2L V8 is actually cheaper to produce than the base, 4.6L n/a NorthStar V8 – whereas the s/c NorthStar is clearly MUCH more expensive. Thus, an STS-v with the 6.2L V8 and 1SG level of equipment, plus a few unique touches, could probably be sold at a very modest ‘markup’ over a ‘regular’, NorthStar 1SG. Currently priced at roughly $61K MSRP. The same would apply to the XLR-v. And I will reiterate here that I would really, REALLY like to see Caddy succeed – and establish itself as a top tier Luxury Sports Brand. The 2008 CTS appears to be a large step in the right direction, though we’ll see where sales are after 6 to 9 months or a year on the market. Just my 0.02 gallons worth . . . I could be wrong. Cheers, - Ray Considering the Corvette, with top option group, to be nearly as much a luxury GT car as the XLR, for much less money and featuring better acceleration ( highly American ) to boot . . .
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Replying to: 62vetteefp (Nov 12, 2007 10:17 am) |
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