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Can GM make Cadillac the standard of the world Again?

6098 messages,  Last post on Aug 14, 2009 at 4:43 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Cadillac Escalade, Cadillac XLR, Cadillac STS, Automotive News


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#2828 of 6098
Re: False Claims about Toyota.. [aldw] by imidazol97
Apr 11, 2007 (6:09 pm)
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Well said. All cars have some faults and flaws.
#2829 of 6098
Re: Gheez [plekto] by gagrice
Apr 11, 2007 (8:00 pm)
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Replying to: plekto (Apr 11, 2007 5:22 pm)

I guess we have a very different view of icons. To me an icon in the automotive world is a vehicle that becomes more valuable after 20-30-50 years. The Land Cruisers can claim that distinction for Toyota. I cannot think of any icons built by the Japanese besides the LC and Datsun Patrol. Which by the way was superior to the Land Cruiser when they first hit our shores. My first choice in 1964 was the Jeep, then the Patrol. The Land Cruiser was the least expensive. I paid $2400 cash for it. Today a clean original late 1960s LC will bring $15k or more.
 
The 2000 GT is collectible. Never really in a league with the competition. If they were really that great they would have sold more than they did in the States. The only reason they bring big money today is the fact that less than 100 ever came to the USA. Give me a 911 any day.
#2830 of 6098
Re: Gheez [gagrice] by steve_ HOST
Apr 11, 2007 (8:31 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 11, 2007 8:00 pm)

240Z
 
Edmunds.com's Most Significant Vehicles, 1966-2006
 
Don't see a Caddy on the list but other GM rides are represented. I'm partial to the 1984 winner myself.
#2831 of 6098
Re: Gheez [steve_] by cooterbfd
Apr 12, 2007 (4:18 am)
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Replying to: steve_ (Apr 11, 2007 8:31 pm)

I think there is a difference between "significant" and "iconic", even though a car can be both. Look at the 1987 winner-the Dodge Dakota-an excellent choice, as it change the landscape for compact trucks forever, just as the Taurus did a year earlier for sedans. But the true all star for 1987 would be the Buick GNX. THAT is a vehicle that is lusted after today-an ICON-something the Dakota is not.
 
Big difference, Steve, as gagrice was talking ICONS.
#2832 of 6098
Re: False Claims about Toyota.. [gagrice] by lemko
Apr 12, 2007 (4:55 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 11, 2007 4:17 pm)

A friend of mine has a 1980 Toyota Land Cruiser. I like it a lot better than the plush soccer-mommy mobile the current Land Cruiser has become. Why couldn't the FJ be more like his '80 model rather than the ersatz retro-vehicle it is?
 
Wasn't there a Studebaker called the Land Cruiser?
 
As for icons, the Datsun 240Z is about the only one I can readily think of from a Japanese make. Maybe the early Honda S2000.
#2833 of 6098
Re: Gheez [gagrice] by lemko
Apr 12, 2007 (4:57 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 11, 2007 8:00 pm)

Datsun Patrol? Never saw one. Do you have a picture?
#2834 of 6098
Re: Gheez [cooterbfd] by steve_ HOST
Apr 12, 2007 (7:18 am)
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Replying to: cooterbfd (Apr 12, 2007 4:18 am)

I think the 240Z qualifies as an icon. Maybe not the minivan.
 
The only iconic Caddy in my mind is pink and belonged to Gladys Presley. The '55 Fleetwood.
#2835 of 6098
Re: False Claims about Toyota.. [gagrice] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Apr 12, 2007 (7:25 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Apr 11, 2007 4:17 pm)

Toyota is rolling over everyone like a freight train is the point. Whatever they are doing, everyone should do it. True, once you are on top you can only go down---the risk of success is always there. Toyota will be #1 automaker in the world pretty soon. That doesn't come from making lousy cars, that's for sure.
 
One thing Cadillac could copy from Harley is to use more foreign parts and technology to boost reliability and credibility even further. Harley V-rods now use Japanese carbs and shocks, Italian ignition, Porsche-designed engine and (gasp) French influenced fuel injection. And it performs well as an "American icon", too. Pretty slick hat trick if you ask me.
 
No reason Cadillac couldn't improve its products with more global cooperation while still retaining a completely American character. Harley stands as a perfect example.
#2836 of 6098
Re: Gheez [steve_] by cooterbfd
Apr 12, 2007 (7:36 am)
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Replying to: steve_ (Apr 12, 2007 7:18 am)

I think the 240Z qualifies as an icon
 
Sure it does! Absolutely!! I know this predates the article you referenced, but from 1955 until 1966 Caddilac produced a limited edition convertible known as the Fleetwood Eldorado Biarritz. Also, Don't forget that the first postwar designs by Bill Mitchell in 1948(1946-47 were gussied up '41's) Started the tailfin craze. Try and touch a '59 Fleetwood Eldo Biarritz for under $100K? BTW Bill Mitchell also designed the '63 Riviera, The car that saved Buick. Now, you'll probably tell me "too far back-what have they done for me lately"? True, but remember this; back in the '50's, GM began marketing the DeVille lineup that was the backbone of their sales for 45 yrs as a car that us blue collar workers aspired to own when we retire. This worked until the late '80's when "lesser cars" from ALL makes started including luxury items (ps, pw, pdl, ac, cruise,etc.) that were historically found on luxury models. That put pressure on Caddy to come up w/ a "plan B". I believe that to be the Seville. Since it's inception, until it was renamed the STS a few years back, I don't believe it has been very competitive, especially since the market for such cars has been heated up by the Japanese. Todays DTS think of it as the stainless steel version of your refrigerator, and not a top of the line Viking.
#2837 of 6098
Re: Gheez [steve_] by gagrice
Apr 12, 2007 (7:40 am)
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Replying to: steve_ (Apr 12, 2007 7:18 am)

I agree with the 240Z cars. Not sure if they bring big bucks. If Edmund's had extended the list into the 1950s you would see some Cadillacs I am sure. I think the late 50s Caddy convertibles are bringing 6 figures at auction.

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